My banshee has a chain return it seems to be made of some kind of cutting board maybe abs plastic? Itts on the rear sprocket kinda inside the skid plate. I really like reading this thread. Your brain is like a lightning storm of thoughts and ideas! Lol. On your oil seal idea, have you thought about doing a test to see how much they can handle and maybe even test to see how much vacume a typical motor exerts?
When it rains it pours!
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I thought about a test rig but but it would only be valid while running in semi-liquid fuel (versus atomized) to figure out what pressures I would need to be able to hold to and by the time I figure out the seal can't hold it, the finely tuned hand built drag engine will be a hulk of scrap metal...
Think of the repercussions of having an engine which is being force fed huge volumes of highly oxygenated fuel all of the sudden running dangerously lean because the entire seal body popped out. The fuel may keep the engine cold enough it wouldn't grenade immediately but I'm still pretty sure it wouldn't be good for it.
I like to pride myself on being to able to think of my future problems, solve them, check the results, and change my plans before I ever even start. I HATE having things creep up on me that I didn't think of in advance.... ask Cole454! LOL!
Cutting board eh? I thought about the chain sliders off a sport bike for starters. The chain slides will probably have to be custom made before it's all over with but the chain guides of a street bike might work for testing purposes.
Think of the repercussions of having an engine which is being force fed huge volumes of highly oxygenated fuel all of the sudden running dangerously lean because the entire seal body popped out. The fuel may keep the engine cold enough it wouldn't grenade immediately but I'm still pretty sure it wouldn't be good for it.
I like to pride myself on being to able to think of my future problems, solve them, check the results, and change my plans before I ever even start. I HATE having things creep up on me that I didn't think of in advance.... ask Cole454! LOL!
Cutting board eh? I thought about the chain sliders off a sport bike for starters. The chain slides will probably have to be custom made before it's all over with but the chain guides of a street bike might work for testing purposes.
More thoughts!
I went to the hardware store today and put my hands on a pile of metric bolts. I was looking at the difference between M8 1.25 and M10 bolts. There are three generally accepted M10 bolt sizes 1.00 1.25 and 1.50.
I know the old adage "the finer the thread the stronger the bolt" but my concern here is that I'm not worrying about how strong the bolt is.... I'm going to be using a 12.9 rated stud. I'm more worried about how strong the aluminum threads inside the cases are. The 1.00 threads are SUPER shallow even if there are more of them to hold I'm concerned that the depth of the threads may come to be a concern during the drilling and tapping process there would be NO room for error. Considering that I'm upgrading the strength of the bolt and the size, I may go the "safer" more common route and go with a M10 x 1.25 thread.
Anyone have thoughts?
I went to the hardware store today and put my hands on a pile of metric bolts. I was looking at the difference between M8 1.25 and M10 bolts. There are three generally accepted M10 bolt sizes 1.00 1.25 and 1.50.
I know the old adage "the finer the thread the stronger the bolt" but my concern here is that I'm not worrying about how strong the bolt is.... I'm going to be using a 12.9 rated stud. I'm more worried about how strong the aluminum threads inside the cases are. The 1.00 threads are SUPER shallow even if there are more of them to hold I'm concerned that the depth of the threads may come to be a concern during the drilling and tapping process there would be NO room for error. Considering that I'm upgrading the strength of the bolt and the size, I may go the "safer" more common route and go with a M10 x 1.25 thread.
Anyone have thoughts?
idk if this will help but its a idea. Not sure if the engine heat gets hot enough to melt or make this stuff weak tho.
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I guess u don't have a vacume pump to do some kind of test it would really only take a fitting with a leakdowntester to find out. I know it would not tell you exactly what you need to know but at least an idea as to what they can and can't handle. Is it the entire seal your worried about or just the seal lip. I would think it would be easier to put some sealant on the outer edge for durability. Cleaning and removing a little sealant would be easier than building something I would think. Also I was talking with a guy who races shiftkarts annd was telling me they would make a brace or strap to keep the head from lifting. Is this something we could do with the case and jug? I'm also curious how using so much fuel would change your head design or volume and squish clearance. Compressing fluid and air are 2 different things I'm sure you know.
No worries on the pipe civic. My blasty will be down for a while. Not in much of a hurry to get her back up either.
Personally I would go with the m10x1.25 bolt if it was my bike.
Personally I would go with the m10x1.25 bolt if it was my bike.
I'm worried about the whole seal body being pushed out of the cases or sucked in against the bearing and disintegrating. I'm going to make a mechanical means to restrain the seal to make SURE it can't be blown out or sucked in. If the seal lips can't handle the pressures I'll tackle that problem when I get to it.
I thought about a strapping system to go over the entire engine but there really isn't much good to strap to below the motor. It would have to be a strap that runs all the way over and around. I'll keep that on the back burner (simmering of course) for thought later
Head design is the type of thing NO ONE talks about once they've figured it out so I'm in the dark on that type of stuff too. Because it's compressing a partial liquid charge, I'm thinking that the combustion chamber needs to be small but the squish area needs to be wide. The overall compression needs to be moderately high but I'm thinking that the quench area too tight will end up with a liquid locked engine.
Alright, a quick update.... I drilled the cases and tapped them to M10 x 1.25. I went looking for M10 x 1.0 hardened full thread bolts but found NONE AT ALL. That sealed the deal for me, not only do I happen to have a M10 x 1.25 tap but I can't get the bolts in the full thread hardened (or in any combo for that matter at my local Ace harware)
I bought M 10 x 1.25 10.9 hardness full thread bolts 60mm long. If anyone decides to do this, get 60mm long for the left side 70mm long for the right side. I had to cut the right side bolts off straight at the bottom of the head to get every last thread available in there.
I measured the bosses cast into the case for depth at M10 and I figured I could go about another 4 threads down past the stock threaded hole. I took full advantage of this fact and drilled as far as I could go without busting through. I then tapped the holes down as far as I could go with a plug tap.
Another set of super clean cases setting beside it for stud size comparison
I bought M 10 x 1.25 10.9 hardness full thread bolts 60mm long. If anyone decides to do this, get 60mm long for the left side 70mm long for the right side. I had to cut the right side bolts off straight at the bottom of the head to get every last thread available in there.
I measured the bosses cast into the case for depth at M10 and I figured I could go about another 4 threads down past the stock threaded hole. I took full advantage of this fact and drilled as far as I could go without busting through. I then tapped the holes down as far as I could go with a plug tap.
Another set of super clean cases setting beside it for stud size comparison
Obviously not the thing a regular blasty engine needs but my thoughts are this should be strong enough for pretty much anything I can throw at this engine.
More thoughts!
So I was thinking about the ignition system the other day. I don't like shaved flywheels! Flywheels are designed with a certain failure point in mind plus a safety factor and I'm going to be pumping this engine harder than stock and faster than stock. I certainly don't want to take away from the strength of the flywheel any more than is absolutely necessary but I would like to not have the internal momentum of a full size flywheel in the left side cover either.
I am thinking about installing a small (4 Ah or less) battery up between the frame behind what will be the fuel cell and installing a different coil because park plugs aren't designed to fire wet. That's what "fouling" is among other things. Electricity will take the path of least resistance and that path is along the surface of the insulator back to the outside of the plug if the plug has liquid on it. To that end top fuel drag engines have 4 spark plugs per cylinder and some VERY high power coils. I don't think 4 spark plugs are necessary but I don't think the stock ignition system is up to the task. I would like to use the factory timing system because it's already there, lightweight, and can be easily tuned with an adjustable timing plate but I'm not sure how the CDI box responds to the source and trigger coil...
My original thought was to strip the timing plate of everything but the trigger coil and let the CDI use the trigger for timing and hook the battery up to an automotive style ignition coil. The problem is, I believe the CDI derives its operational power from the source coil. If I strip the timing plate the CDI might not work at all. I'm unsure if I can hook the battery up to the power lead going to the CDI (or if there even is a power lead going to the CDI!) and power it off the battery.
I'd like to get a PVL ignition internal rotor flywheel but that's one thing that's worth more than everything I have invested in this build already. I may just run a stock flywheel and ignition system wiring and then power the automotive style coil off the battery. May be the easiest way to make this happen...
Anyone have thoughts?
More thoughts!
So I was thinking about the ignition system the other day. I don't like shaved flywheels! Flywheels are designed with a certain failure point in mind plus a safety factor and I'm going to be pumping this engine harder than stock and faster than stock. I certainly don't want to take away from the strength of the flywheel any more than is absolutely necessary but I would like to not have the internal momentum of a full size flywheel in the left side cover either.
I am thinking about installing a small (4 Ah or less) battery up between the frame behind what will be the fuel cell and installing a different coil because park plugs aren't designed to fire wet. That's what "fouling" is among other things. Electricity will take the path of least resistance and that path is along the surface of the insulator back to the outside of the plug if the plug has liquid on it. To that end top fuel drag engines have 4 spark plugs per cylinder and some VERY high power coils. I don't think 4 spark plugs are necessary but I don't think the stock ignition system is up to the task. I would like to use the factory timing system because it's already there, lightweight, and can be easily tuned with an adjustable timing plate but I'm not sure how the CDI box responds to the source and trigger coil...
My original thought was to strip the timing plate of everything but the trigger coil and let the CDI use the trigger for timing and hook the battery up to an automotive style ignition coil. The problem is, I believe the CDI derives its operational power from the source coil. If I strip the timing plate the CDI might not work at all. I'm unsure if I can hook the battery up to the power lead going to the CDI (or if there even is a power lead going to the CDI!) and power it off the battery.
I'd like to get a PVL ignition internal rotor flywheel but that's one thing that's worth more than everything I have invested in this build already. I may just run a stock flywheel and ignition system wiring and then power the automotive style coil off the battery. May be the easiest way to make this happen...
Anyone have thoughts?
You would be right to assume that the PVL is definatly expensive. And would be very easy to minulipitate the CDI as well since it seams like your allready re-routing most of it. Since you would most like have to splice or sauder off of the source coil and button it up nicely to avoid shorts as well.......it's a challenging chore......plus you would ned to buy a volt ohm meter if you dont have one in your possession allready. 
You would be right to assume that the PVL is definatly expensive. And would be very easy to minulipitate the CDI as well since it seams like your allready re-routing most of it. Since you would most like have to splice or sauder off of the source coil and button it up nicely to avoid shorts as well.......it's a challenging chore......plus you would ned to buy a volt ohm meter if you dont have one in your possession allready.
With all this I've put into this already do you really think I'm assuming anything, about anything? I KNOW the PVL ignition system is expensive and I don't think I'll be going that route just because of the price.
Here's what I'm thinking about the source coil though. I know the source coil provides power the ignition coil for the discharge, Does it also provide power to the CDI box. Does the CDI box use the source coil A/C power as an RPM function as well? Is the trigger coil's signal actually manipulated inside the CDI for a electronic timing advance? Does the CDI use the source coil or the trigger for the RPM reading? If the source coil has 4 magnets to produce the power and the trigger coil has the same 4 magnets whizzing around it, how does it know the proper time to fire the ignition coil?
Will all of the other fancy dancy toys I have out there, you wonder if I have a multi-meter. My thoughts were to bring home an oscilloscope/signal generator home from work and do some testing..... LOL a multi-meter. I don't know what yer smoking but you better be sharing! LOL
I would go with running a coil off the battery. Also, I'm pretty sure that the two wires from the source coil on the stator (Black w/red stripe, White w/red stripe, I forget what colors they are) run the CDI. I could be wrong but it can easily be checked in the wiring schematic of the owners manual.
I'm trying to come up with the most economical and effective way to run a high power ignition coil.
I'd like to strip the stock ignition system down to just the trigger coil but I'm not sure the CDI box will still work like that.
I'm going to dig into the wiring harness diagram tomorrow at work on some downtime and figure out what powers what and what I can do without LOL.
I am 90% sure (LOL) that you CAN run the CDI from just the source coil. I do know that a stator w/ a bad source coil is a bad stator period, but a stator w/ bad pickup coil works fine. Sooo..in theory, you *should* be able to run the CDI from the source coil. Would you still run the ignition from the CDI or would you somehow "boost" the ignition by running the ignition wire from the CDI "through" the battery then to the coil?
My thought was to use the stock ignition setup as the timing part of the system and then use the battery to drive the primary loop of the ignition coil and the stock ignition system to trigger the secondary loop.
So the "power" would be coming from the battery but the "timing" would be coming from the stock system.
So the "power" would be coming from the battery but the "timing" would be coming from the stock system.
You could use a mustang coil...
MSD Blaster Ford Ignition Coil-MSD Part 8722 Mustang | eBay
MSD Blaster Ford Ignition Coil-MSD Part 8722 Mustang | eBay
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I was thinking about using a MSD "blaster" coil. A standard "can" ignition coil SHOULD do the trick. Plus, then I would still be using a "blaster" part on my blaster.
Blaster 2 Coil Hi-Performance - 8202
Blaster 2 Coil Hi-Performance - 8202
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