Jetting? where to start?

PikledBeats

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Apr 19, 2010
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Idaho
Intake: CFM, UNI

Carb: 28mm Mikuni Flatslide

Reeds: V-Force 3

Top End: Wiseco Super-Lite Forged Piston

Exhaust: DMC Alien pipe/silencer

Elevation: 2100-2200 ft.

Never have posted in this section but hope I can get a good starting point.

Main, Pilot, and Needle position please.
 
i would say start with what you had in the stock carb and see what happens first. dont go hammering on it if it doesnt idle right though. you didnt go from a mikuni to a keihin so it shouldnt be so hard to get dialed in if you had the stock carb running good.
 
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K, I thought that would be right and have tuned many stock carbs have never gone up in size on carb however or ran the CFM, I was running a 260 main before and the stock pilot which is 32.5. It was just slightly rich. I figured with 28mm and cfm i'd have to jump to 300 and work my way down but was more concerned with pilot and needle.
 
Hey beats,

35 pilot, 180-200 main, and needle on the third position. would be my starting point with your mods.
 
Hey beats,

35 pilot, 180-200 main, and needle on the third position. would be my starting point with your mods.

You mean 280-300, stock is 230, i was running 260

Edit: I really don't think i'll have trouble once i get into it, i was gonna see if someone had similar mods just getting idea of starting point
 
yeah but when you get a larger carb diameter it allows more fuel in and you need to get leaner. im in agreement with slick here. id start at 200 and see where you need to go
 
You mean 280-300, stock is 230, i was running 260

Edit: I really don't think i'll have trouble once i get into it, i was gonna see if someone had similar mods just getting idea of starting point

I run a stock carb bored to 30mm and you certainly don't have to go leaner. You have to match the large volume of air you are now flowing, therefore need to richen the mixture. I would start at a 300 main and see how it runs, then go from there and do a plug chop. If it's rich, then step down gradually. If you need some Mikuni jets, I have some for you since you provided a needle. I:I As far as the needle, just keep it on the 3rd clip for now. If it runs fine, you should be alright, if not, you can always play with it richening and leaning the mixture. Getting the needle "spot on" is the most difficult part as it's not always a matter of simply moving the clip when needle tapers, diameters, and lengths come into play.
 
I run a stock carb bored to 30mm and you certainly don't have to go leaner. You have to match the large volume of air you are now flowing, therefore need to richen the mixture. I would start at a 300 main and see how it runs, then go from there and do a plug chop. If it's rich, then step down gradually. If you need some Mikuni jets, I have some for you since you provided a needle. I:I As far as the needle, just keep it on the 3rd clip for now. If it runs fine, you should be alright, if not, you can always play with it richening and leaning the mixture. Getting the needle "spot on" is the most difficult part as it's not always a matter of simply moving the clip when needle tapers, diameters, and lengths come into play.

opening up restrictive stock box to cfm and adding added air flow through larger carb requires more fuel, that's simple tuning more airflow needs more fuel to not run lean. I gotta be honest It's funny that i have never posted in the ask a pro (i think) but it's the same old people posting....lolI:I It's good, i've never had a problem tuning before everyone asks jetting questions in here though so thought i'd just see.
 
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I can see ya needing more than a 200-230 max, But plug chops will tell ya for sure!

yea, plug chops will be the key. I am with you that 35 is the starting point for pilot and if anything i will be steeping down one to 32.5. I am not going to disagree with anyone as I have not gone up in carb size but am planning at starting high and working my way down. I will say that elevation plays big into where i ride as my house is at 2200 ft and my riding areas elevates over 1200 more bringing my riding area to 2200 to 3500 ft elevation over sea level. Specifically for this reason I have to jet slightly on the rich side to start with and often change jets depending on moisture/temperature. I'll post what it ended up being so others know a good starting point.


Edit, Looking at those who run PWK's I am seeing that yes, the jet size for some with mods close to mine is 45 pilot with 160 main. I am wondering if there is some difference in jetting between PWK's and Mikuni's as I know absolutely nothing about PWK's. Upon some thought I will be starting where i was before going up in size and CFM/UNI and just working from there with plug chops. Luckily I have a shop that will just trade me out jets.
 
slicker hes running a mikuni so its the same numbers as stock

Mikuni Folks,

Mikuni uses yet another measurement convention - reportedly based on flow rate. The result is that Mikuni's sizes are vastly different from the other makers' i.e. Keihein.

There is no way with my setup that it would ever fall under 230 main, which is STOCK mikuni main jet size on a blaster. This is even while accounting for airflow/velocity. Since there is some confusion here, I went to get this backed up by "true" yamaha tech's. I am not trying to start anything here but they could not believe that someone would suggest that the air velocity from 26-28mm would cause a 6x drop in main jet. After we all had a good laugh, the outcome was what I initially thought. Start at around 300 and work my way down (yamaha suggested 320) I was under the impression that this was a topic area that techs respond in, but so no one else blows up a motor by running extremely lean, scanning this thread etc. Here is the rundown.....

I had previously ran a 260 main, 32.5 pilot, and needle in the fourth position. I figured my main would atleast have to go up one size for the new reed setup and one for the airbox setup, which would put me at 280, to be on the safe side, My plan was to start at 35 pilot, 300 main and work my way down as 300 should be on the rich side. I think some here are confused on the role of air velocity. Even though air velocity is increased, it will not be much from 26-28mm, in fact the air velocity is changed more by angle/size of intake from the CFM Airbox. Back to simple two-stroke tuning More Air = A need for more fuel. The 28mm carbs affect is that I get a smoother airflow, going from a round to flatslide carb, and the amount of air is increased thus the amount of fuel will also need increased.

So today, I am running plug chops, final numbers will be posted and so mis-information is not spread, I will start a separate thread to explain jetting a Mikuni 28

Just to get one last thing explained, I started this thread to see if a "tech" or someone with similiar setup "mikuni" had a clearer starting point than traditional jetting practices in order to save time doing plug chop starting from a rich point. I also was interested in needle position explanations/suggestions.
I tried to nicely state this, and apologize if I now come across callous, as I do not understand the point of this forum topic if it people taking guesses. This is not directed to all here, I have gotten excellent feedback on other topics and a few on this one from some members who did post here. I would urge for the sake of others who truly do not understand jetting that oif you are not a tech do not post in threads here......that's all.
 
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Theres a tradeoff with your logic.

If you increase airflow, youre increasing how much air goes through the venturi ports on the carb and youre actually increasing the fuel you get through a jet, size for size.

The general rule of thumb in 2 stroke world is in fact (Ive personally confirmed this), if you go up on the carb size, you jet down.

Example given, I got my bike with a 36mm Keihin PWK. It had a 160 main in it and a 45 pilot. It was WAY too rich. It would run out of gas WAY before everyone else on the ride, and it would foul plugs badly.

Got to the point where I couldnt even get the thing to not foul plugs even running a 120 main. I dropped to a 110 main and a 30 pilot and it was STILL too rich. I ended up trading it away for a 28mm PWK.

Jetting on the 28 proved to be a 145 main and a 40 pilot. I had to jet back up for the smaller carb.

Just some food for thought.
 
Theres a tradeoff with your logic.

If you increase airflow, youre increasing how much air goes through the venturi ports on the carb and youre actually increasing the fuel you get through a jet, size for size.

The general rule of thumb in 2 stroke world is in fact (Ive personally confirmed this), if you go up on the carb size, you jet down.

Example given, I got my bike with a 36mm Keihin PWK. It had a 160 main in it and a 45 pilot. It was WAY too rich. It would run out of gas WAY before everyone else on the ride, and it would foul plugs badly.

Got to the point where I couldnt even get the thing to not foul plugs even running a 120 main. I dropped to a 110 main and a 30 pilot and it was STILL too rich. I ended up trading it away for a 28mm PWK.

Jetting on the 28 proved to be a 145 main and a 40 pilot. I had to jet back up for the smaller carb.

Just some food for thought.

I agree with you somewhat on this fact. But at the same time the actual size difference between a mikuni vm26 and tm28, are not the what you would think them to be. So for comparison I have taken a pic. The I.D. to the manifold is exact same size as stock, the I.D. on the air side is 2mm larger than stock. The amount of air difference is not anywhere equal to a stock vs. 36 where I agree you would jet down.

There is no accurate way to convert mikuni sizes to keihin as one are based on size and one on flow rate. PWK jet sizes are not accurate to a mikuni.

Ok, so the main reason a flatslide is better is because it does have higher airflow velocity when compared with a round slide. You could be correct if in fact the carb was the only difference at the time I changed but I suspect only one jet size. But you failed to read all the posts, there were other mods from the point that I was at a 260 main and 32.5. Mainly being in air delivery by the CFM.

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Now, we could argue all day, but let me tell you the actual facts. My buddy and I both did this carb mod. He had FMF, CFM/UNI, VF3's. No head work. I have the exact same except for DMC. I am currently putting mine together but we did his when we both got our carbs last week.

He had 290 main and 32.5 pilot before carb, but had his CFM already on bike. After putting on carb we started at 300 main, 35 pilot, After plug chops he ended up with.......wait for it. 280 main and 32.5 pilot.You are right here by one main jet size I:I

Ok, so I am adding my CFM and previously (without it) was running 260 main, 32.5 pilot. So what will is a safe bet to start 280 main and 32.5 pilot. This is two sizes in main above 260, which is going up in jets, not down.

These are the facts, you are only right to a point, if you increase airflow through venturi ports, you get slight increase in fuel through jet. But it does not fully compensate for airflow or you wouldn't have to ever re-jet.

Adding the amount of airflow from CFM vs. stock you have to go up in jet sizes.

And for the last time keihen jets cannot be compared to mikuni. those posting keihin sizes to someone who does not know the difference and has a mikuni is going to blow up their motor by being lean. I really wish people would just read all, before adding their $0.02X( , is this not a place for techs to answer?

So if in fact you traded a TM28 straight across for stock, what you had in stock is going to be the best starting point. But as always Plug Chops not forum suggestions will tell you.
 
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Dude, youre the one who failed to read. I didnt suggest jetting based on a Keihin. I simply stated that with MY Keihin, on the larger bodied one, I had to jet down. When I changed to a smaller bodied one, I had to jet back up.

Im not telling YOU to run this jet or that jet. I was simply providing numbers as a reference point.

The physics of either carb arent any different. The pilots both work the same way, the mains both work the same way. Just the numbers are based on a different scale. The same rules apply overall. Larger bodied carb, jet down. Smaller bodied carb, jet up.

Its not always going to be that rule, maybe from a 26 to a 28, but as I stated before, in general, thats how it works. As Ive learned the hard way.
 
Dude, youre the one who failed to read. I didnt suggest jetting based on a Keihin. I simply stated that with MY Keihin, on the larger bodied one, I had to jet down. When I changed to a smaller bodied one, I had to jet back up.

Im not telling YOU to run this jet or that jet. I was simply providing numbers as a reference point.

The physics of either carb arent any different. The pilots both work the same way, the mains both work the same way. Just the numbers are based on a different scale. The same rules apply overall. Larger bodied carb, jet down. Smaller bodied carb, jet up.

Its not always going to be that rule, maybe from a 26 to a 28, but as I stated before, in general, thats how it works. As Ive learned the hard way.

Sorry, that came across the wrong way, I was trying to say that yes you were correct, but that I thought you had misread in the fact that when I gave my previous jet numbers it was without air box. I actually said the thing about keihin jets because, almost every one in this thread seemed to be either confused due to the fact that they run keihen when they threw out jet numbers. I understand that you did this just as reference not as suggestion. It was an open comment so that people reading did not get confused and think that they could run say a 145 in there mikuni as it would blow up there top end. So I will apologize if you took that personal I:I
 
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Its koo man. I understand your concern for the masses. I wouldnt want someone trying to run Keihin jetting sizes in a Mikuni as well. I gave my numbers just to show the vast scale of difference between the 2. Going from a 36 mil carb to a 28 mil carb changes ALOT.

It may also help some of the guys who might want to run a larger bodied carb than standard in the future, regardless of whether its Keihin or Mikuni.

It was just nuts how with a 110 main in the 36mm it still was too rich at WOT and was fouling plugs and running out of gas FAST and with the 140 (damn, cant remember if its a 140 or a 145 or even a 135)... either way, with whats in the 28mm I have ridden on it most of last season and all of this season so far and I havent had to touch my plug and my fuel econ is right on par with a stockish blaster.
 
I find this topic to be rather interesting, Cause I had changed my carb on mine. I had just went up to 28mm carb, But both are round slide Mikuni carbs. I had gone up a main jet size on mine. Back ground on the blasty is filter swaped to uni jetted, Than pipe, again rejetted, Then carb. All on stock motor.
Main reason I changed to the present carb, My dad had it on a shelf collecting dust, And no TORS.
I don't regret changing it, But still curious of the advantages of the flat sided carbs.