jetting problems after spending $2000 on mods

Jul 13, 2011
410
13
55
This is my first 2 cycle build. I bought the machine last year and it had a lean burndown last year summer when my 300 pd friend rode it hard and through many puddles. So I found this board and I took everyone's advice on what combination to build.
I took it up north in October in 50 degree weather. I had a 55 pilot and a 160 main. It made great power from zero to 1/3 throttle. After 1/3 throttle it doesn't keep pulling, it leveled off. When I got to the railroad tracks I got it up into 6th and tried to get some top speed. It seized up. I let it sit a minute and it fired right back up. It did that three times that weekend. I tore it down and it had a multipoint siezer. So the engine builder was kind enough to warranty the work. He brought the cylinder to piston clearance from .002 to .004. I got it back all together a few months ago and I took it out on the ice in 18 degree weather after being properly broke in. I started running it a little hard and it seized once again with the bigger clearance. I talked with my local machinist and he was thinking that I was running way to lean on the main jet. So I got sizes 180,190,200 and 205. I took it out yesterday in 35 degree weather on the frozen lake. I tried the biggest jet first. It fell on its face after half throttle and bogged. I worked my way down to 180 with the same results, the bog just got a little lighter. So I put my 160 back in. It didn't bog after half throttle but it just doesn't pull at all. It levels off after 1/4 throttle. The thing pulls real hard up to 1/4 throttle and thats it. I had my gps and all I could get is 56 mph at the most and this was at 1/4 throttle. After changing jets a few times I notice after a few hard runs that I had crankcase oil coming out of the vent tube. Perhaps I have bad crank seals. I did a leak down test after the first rebuild but I have not since then.
I think I'm still to rich on the main and I'm getting a lean condition at half throttle from leaking seals. They are new seals, but I've seen new parts fail in the past.
I'm getting very frustrated at this machine. I've spent so much time and $ on it to have it not much faster then stock. My neighbor a few blocks away has a big bore blaster and he can do 91 mph with 14/38 sprockets WTF!
Stock piston
Stock piston.jpg
First Wiseco
seizer 1.jpg
First Wiseco
seizer 2.jpg
 
I'm going to do a leakdown test next and see if anything is leaking. If it doesn't hold I'll pull the side covers and check the seals.
 
Sounds like my parking brake sensor is not causing an issue. My bike fires up easy and has good throttle response. It just stops pulling after 1/4 throttle.
 
I've done the gearing calculator before to figure all possible gearing combo's. From what I recall a 14/38 with 20" tires will max out at like 76mph which is, honestly, dangerous on a quad not setup for it.

Is it making a "BOGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG" sound after 1/4 throttle or is sputtering?

"bog" means lean, sputtering means rich. If it's BOGGING, pull out the choke handle and see if it gets better. That's a surefire way to diagnose a lean condition. It sounds like you're on the hunt with a possible air leak, it could be a bad crank seal causing that. Do the leakdown test and if it comes back sealed, jerk the carburetor apart and pull/push out the emulsion tube (I'm assuming keihin PWK/PJ since you said 150-160 jets so it would be unscrew from the bottom) and check to make sure you don't have varnish formed around the small holes down there. That will make a "flat spot" about 1/4 throttle.

Also, this sound dumb as a box of rocks but check your pipe to make sure dirtdobbers or birds or mice didn't make a next in there.... it happens quicker than you think they could do it....
 
I pulled the choke out when I had the 190 main in. It didn't make much of an difference. It ran a little worse. It sounds like bogging over half throttle and it lost power. I can't imagine it was too lean. Then putting my 160 back would be even worse then if that was the case. It had to be to rich.
I will pull the carb bowl and see if the main jet housing holes are clogged, I doubt they are.
I've checked the exhaust pipes for free flow, they are fine.
It will be a while before I can work on it again. I'll have some answers by the end of the week.
 
So you've been all over EVERYWHERE with jetting.... we can safely assume it's not that! LMAO!

Get the service manual out and go through the ignition system troubleshooting guide. This sounds stupid but it has happened before.... the spark plug cap can be bad and finding it's way to the head around the spark plug. The trigger coil could be rusty/bad and causing a random firing timing event.
 
I would say 160 jetting at that cold would be lean in a 30mm. Going from 180 to 160 is a big jetting jump.

Rule out an air leak first, then check over the ignition
 
^^^^ had a LT80 bog when higher vibes would float the plug cap up from the plug ^^^

It takes a pretty stout motor to pull those gears.

I'll toss this in again for humor. Had a bike would run great to around 1/2 throttle then bog. It would bog earlier if ya really got on it. It would rev up and sound great sitting there in neutral. Started with jetting then tried different carbs, stator & cdi. Still bogged, wouldn't rev out. When I assembled the motor I had stuffed a wad of paper towel in the exhaust port to keep out dust & moisture till it was installed. When I installed the pipe I didn't notice the paper wad. As the exhaust flow increased the paper would work it's way to the back of the pipe and start to choke it with the pulse. A very effective rev limiter :) If you have no leaks, the carb & spark are good it might be worth checking the pipe for obstructions. Mine was just dumb but mice can do it too.
 
I've done the gearing calculator before to figure all possible gearing combo's. From what I recall a 14/38 with 20" tires will max out at like 76mph which is, honestly, dangerous on a quad not setup for it.

Is it making a "BOGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG" sound after 1/4 throttle or is sputtering?

"bog" means lean, sputtering means rich. If it's BOGGING, pull out the choke handle and see if it gets better. That's a surefire way to diagnose a lean condition. It sounds like you're on the hunt with a possible air leak, it could be a bad crank seal causing that. Do the leakdown test and if it comes back sealed, jerk the carburetor apart and pull/push out the emulsion tube (I'm assuming keihin PWK/PJ since you said 150-160 jets so it would be unscrew from the bottom) and check to make sure you don't have varnish formed around the small holes down there. That will make a "flat spot" about 1/4 throttle.

Also, this sound dumb as a box of rocks but check your pipe to make sure dirtdobbers or birds or mice didn't make a next in there.... it happens quicker than you think they could do it....

Great info yellow :)
 
Firstly do a leak test.

I noticed that you have had a couple of seizes, could the woodruff key in the flywheel have sheared, advancing the ignition some. This would take a lot from the top end range.

This condition is going to produce more heat, which could be the cause of the tranny fluid coming out of the breather, especially if it is a tad overfilled.