You may loose me.

[Paulie B]

Pokers win in competition only because smokers are crippled by the rules period. Ever priced a new YZ250 vs a 450 from the factory?
The 450 is cheaper why is that? Def not because it's cheaper to make!
It's because even the factory knows they can make it up in the long run in parts.
I watched a show called junkyard wars the other day and both teams found 2t's in the junkyard to use in their 'desert racer' builds. One of them was a cr500 from the 90's.
In the future, what are the odds you find a 20 year old 450 in the yard that runs? How about nil

 

[99LRDblaster]

Pokers win in competition only because smokers are crippled by the rules period. Ever priced a new YZ250 vs a 450 from the factory?
The 450 is cheaper why is that? Def not because it's cheaper to make!
It's because even the factory knows they can make it up in the long run in parts.
I watched a show called junkyard wars the other day and both teams found 2t's in the junkyard to use in their 'desert racer' builds. One of them was a cr500 from the 90's.
In the future, what are the odds you find a 20 year old 450 in the yard that runs? How about nil

I disagree with about everything you said. I can go out to my buddies barn and pull out a beat to hell ATC 350X and the thing starts right up and runs......never had a rebuild and the damn frame will rust out before it stops running. I've been a honda recon that's been completely submerged, upside down, and flooded underwater with water in the oil.......and my buddy rode it back home(not smart BTW). 4 strokes are ultimately more reliable than 2 strokes. Sure, it comes down to how you maintain your engine either way, but if you maintain both equally, the 4 strokes generally last a lot longer.

The 2 strokes are overpriced for a good reason. The EPA regs are phasing them out and the manufacturers want to transition dirtbike buyers to 4 strokes.....what better way than raising the price on a 2 stroke? This is no different than gas guzzler taxes when buying cars. How will the factory make up for it in parts? The 450 is cheaper because of EPA regs, higher volume of sales(therefore lower selling point), and the CRF450's main competitor isn't a CR250......it's a YZF450, or another 450. Secondly, after production ultimately ceases on 2 stroke dirtbikes/quads(it will happen in the near future), OEM spec parts still have to be manufactured for the bikes/quads......which costs $$$ while reaping no reward in sales after they go into production.....thereby increasing purchase price before hand.

 

[Paulie B]

I said 450 not 350x....
I got no problem with the old 4 strokes or even the newer 'non-competition' ones.
I disagree with your view on why the 2 stroke is more expensive.

 

[99LRDblaster]

I said 450 not 350x....
I got no problem with the old 4 strokes or even the newer 'non-competition' ones.
I disagree with your view on why the 2 stroke is more expensive.

What difference does it make? A performance related issue? What makes you think a 250 2 stroke is more likely to be laying around and willing to start up 20 years from now compared to a 450 4 stroke?

 

[Paulie B]

3 moving parts vs a hundred.

 

[99LRDblaster]

3 moving parts vs a hundred.

Please tell me you are joking. 8-|

 

[Paulie B]

Wheres the joke?
You don't have to agree. Please go buy a 450.

 

[Outlawed Genetics]

i both a maxed out blaster, a lightly moded blaster, and a crf230f and i love all 3 but.... im feining for a 2 stroke bike. the crf is great for nasty trails and riding slow wheelies but it doesnt give me that rush that a 2 stroke does. the 230f keep right beside my lightly modded blaster till the blaster tops out then takes off btw. doesnt stand a chance against my big bore beast tho at any point

i think you'll regret getting rid of the quad and having just a bike after the new car scent wears off but thats just me. i say do what YOU want dont let anyone else talk you into doing what they would do. different strokes for different folks.

 

[Paulie B]

i both a maxed out blaster, a lightly moded blaster, and a crf230f and i love all 3 but.... im feining for a 2 stroke bike. the crf is great for nasty trails and riding slow wheelies but it doesnt give me that rush that a 2 stroke does. the 230f keep right beside my lightly modded blaster till the blaster tops out then takes off btw. doesnt stand a chance against my big bore beast tho at any point

i think you'll regret getting rid of the quad and having just a bike after the new car scent wears off but thats just me. i say do what YOU want dont let anyone else talk you into doing what they would do. different strokes for different folks.

Agreed totally.
It really comes down to what you want, how much maintenance you want to do, and cost to maintain.
Don't start the 4 strokes are winning vs 2 strokes in the AMA.
The rules are screwed and those riders are factory backed, pay for nothing, and have others that work on their bike.
Before someone like LRD chimes in about that being the way it has always been- yes it is.
The difference being when 2 strokes were allowed an everyman privateer could come in and actually earn a factory ride. Now privateers are few and far between because of the increased cost to maintain a 4 stroke.
AMA races are now louder and annoying and spectator turnout is worse.
I wonder why alot of OEM's are carrying over previous year quads?

 

[99LRDblaster]

Agreed totally.
It really comes down to what you want, how much maintenance you want to do, and cost to maintain.
Don't start the 4 strokes are winning vs 2 strokes in the AMA.
The rules are screwed and those riders are factory backed, pay for nothing, and have others that work on their bike.
Before someone like LRD chimes in about that being the way it has always been- yes it is.
The difference being when 2 strokes were allowed an everyman privateer could come in and actually earn a factory ride. Now privateers are few and far between because of the increased cost to maintain a 4 stroke.
AMA races are now louder and annoying and spectator turnout is worse.
I wonder why alot of OEM's are carrying over previous year quads?

The only one I know of that has carried over a previous year's model is the Honda 450R........same thing was done with the LT250R, Blaster, TRX250R(aside from frame change), Banshee(aside from J-arms), Tecate, etc.

 

[4cfed]

simple as this...


250 2 stroke arent competitive with the 450 due to weight.. yes it helps but the 250s make the same hp as the 450s if not a little more and are lighter... most 250s are in the mid 40s if not closer to 50 hp.... look it up.. most 125s are mid 30s for hp..

look at the honda trx250r it was banned from ama sanctioned races because it was kicking the sh*t out of all the 4 strokes


all the pro sh*t run the 250 and 450 4 strokes.. why because it makes the manufcturers money!! ppl see guys on tv on new bikes winning and they wanna ride the same stuff its always been that way.. you still guys from the 90s on a 2 stroke like carmichal (sp) or mcgrath and there gonna blow away all the new bikes simple as that


and the reason the 350x still runs is because its a low tech 4 stroke... the tolorances arnt as tight as the new high strung 450s



and btw a crf150r is a fast bike BUT they rev like a 2 stroke there power is all up top

 

[4cfed]

The only one I know of that has carried over a previous year's model is the Honda 450R........same thing was done with the LT250R, Blaster, TRX250R(aside from frame change), Banshee(aside from J-arms), Tecate, etc.

lt 250r changes over the years...

85-86 are the same

87 is the same as 88-90 BUT the 87 made more hp

and 91-92 were diff.. yes they all looked the same but motors, trannys suspension and axles all changed

 

[99LRDblaster]

Wheres the joke?
You don't have to agree. Please go buy a 450.

The 4 strokes are superior in efficiency and efficiency at a realistic powerband. I still enjoy 2 strokes. After I sell my Blaster, I will still pick up another 2 stroke along the way....maybe a shee or otherwise, but it's no coincidence that once 4 strokes hit the market as sport quads that they started slowly taking over. Just like cars being 4 strokes, mowers being 4 strokes, quads will ultimately only be 4 strokes and pretty much already are.

You make a 4 stroke sound like it has so many parts to it. No reeds, add valves, a cam, and then what after that?......it has 2 extra parts.....whoop dee sh*t. For some reason I doubt a sealed cam and closed valves are going to suddenly get stuck from sitting around......and due to their efficiency and ability to keep heat dissipation under more favorable conditions they stay more reliable as well. This doesn't take a lot of science to understand. Hell I will even go the added mile and say the 4 strokes are even easier engines to understand on operation, because with 2 stroke modding and port timing in conjunction with stroking, long rods, timing changes, fuel changes, and every thing else, it's a headache trying to figure out the BS from the facts unless you hit up SAE proven info from specific testing........that probably wasn't even done on the 2 stroke vehicle you ride.

 

[Whitty21]

simple as this...


250 2 stroke arent competitive with the 450 due to weight.. yes it helps but the 250s make the same hp as the 450s if not a little more and are lighter... most 250s are in the mid 40s if not closer to 50 hp.... look it up.. most 125s are mid 30s for hp..

look at the honda trx250r it was banned from ama sanctioned races because it was kicking the sh*t out of all the 4 strokes


all the pro sh*t run the 250 and 450 4 strokes.. why because it makes the manufcturers money!! ppl see guys on tv on new bikes winning and they wanna ride the same stuff its always been that way.. you still guys from the 90s on a 2 stroke like carmichal (sp) or mcgrath and there gonna blow away all the new bikes simple as that


and the reason the 350x still runs is because its a low tech 4 stroke... the tolorances arnt as tight as the new high strung 450s



and btw a crf150r is a fast bike BUT they rev like a 2 stroke there power is all up top

amen..........................

 

[99LRDblaster]

lt 250r changes over the years...

85-86 are the same

87 is the same as 88-90 BUT the 87 made more hp

and 91-92 were diff.. yes they all looked the same but motors, trannys suspension and axles all changed

So has the 450s. Doesn't deter from what I said. The 85-86 were the same.

 

[4cfed]

2 extra parts???? cam, valves, valve springs, valve spring retainers, valve seats valve guides, cam chain, chain tensioner, add timing gears, extra oil passages, a oil pump i can keep going all day

 

[99LRDblaster]

simple as this...


250 2 stroke arent competitive with the 450 due to weight.. yes it helps but the 250s make the same hp as the 450s if not a little more and are lighter... most 250s are in the mid 40s if not closer to 50 hp.... look it up.. most 125s are mid 30s for hp..

look at the honda trx250r it was banned from ama sanctioned races because it was kicking the sh*t out of all the 4 strokes


all the pro sh*t run the 250 and 450 4 strokes.. why because it makes the manufcturers money!! ppl see guys on tv on new bikes winning and they wanna ride the same stuff its always been that way.. you still guys from the 90s on a 2 stroke like carmichal (sp) or mcgrath and there gonna blow away all the new bikes simple as that


and the reason the 350x still runs is because its a low tech 4 stroke... the tolorances arnt as tight as the new high strung 450s



and btw a crf150r is a fast bike BUT they rev like a 2 stroke there power is all up top

And that's precisely how the 2 strokes won before the 400ex and company brought the emergence of the 450s.

 

[4cfed]

So has the 450s. Doesn't deter from what I said. The 85-86 were the same.

the hondas stayed the same.. honestly from a reliability stand point id rather have a honda.. if i had the pockets id get a ltr450 or polaris 450mx ( cheaper version of the ktm) or the ktm 450 sx

 

[99LRDblaster]

2 extra parts???? cam, valves, valve springs, valve spring retainers, valve seats valve guides, cam chain, chain tensioner, add timing gears, extra oil passages, a oil pump i can keep going all day

And with reeds, you have 2 or more reed petals, a reed cage, a gasket, 4 or more reed screws, etc. 8-|

I'm not going to break things down to get into semantics. You have a cam and valves....nothing more that is significant to causing an issue from sitting.

 

[4cfed]

And that's precisely how the 2 strokes won before the 400ex and company brought the emergence of the 450s.

a 2 stroke is stil gonna outrun a 450 simple as that, iv witnessed it... hell my buddys old trx250r whooped the sh*t outta every 450 quad and bike as dyracuse 2 years ago...