Why 32:1

[melonBerry]

i wanna know what can i do with this 50:1 oil i got laying around its lucas but i cant take it back i lost the receipt. and im wondering can i mix it with gas to ratio down to 32:1 . and when you said bout lower cc's higher concentration, do you mean that if i have a BB blaster engine that my ratio should be lower than 32:1 just wondering. learning alot here! lol

 

[Quadrider10]

i wanna know what can i do with this 50:1 oil i got laying around its lucas but i cant take it back i lost the receipt. and im wondering can i mix it with gas to ratio down to 32:1 . and when you said bout lower cc's higher concentration, do you mean that if i have a BB blaster engine that my ratio should be lower than 32:1 just wondering. learning alot here! lol

as long as u jet for it, ull be fine running the 50:1 oil. just choose an oil and mix ratio jet for it, and stick to it. and no u dont need lower then 32:1 for bbk. bbk's only add 60-80 thousands of an inch over stock. its not much of a difference

 

[Blaaster]

Providing it is oil designed for air cooled motor cycles, it is possible to run a Blaster at 50:1, as long as it is jetted correctly for the conditions it is suited for.

My experience leads me to comment, that a 200cc motor needs 32:1 or more oil, for optiumum lubrication and performance.

I run at 25:1, with bean oil, for increased compression.

There are oils on the market that demand to be run at lesser oil concentrations.

A BB Blaster will run very well with 32:1

 

[best]

Blaaster knows man, don't think you can trip him up!
His explanations are bang on.

Gordon Jenkins, who wrote "The Two-Stroke Tuners Handbook" way back in the 70s also wrote a series of articles on oils in various magazines.
Here is an article on oil mixture ratios:

http://edj.net/2stroke/jennings/oilpremix.pdf

Now keep in mind, this was the 1970s and technology has come a long way.
He was using bean oil which still is today the standard by which everything else is measured, but bean oil is a "more is better" proposition. If you are looking for ever last horsepower, you will probably want to run lots of oil.

Oh, that oil injection pump you took off your Blaster? 20:1
Maybe those engineers weren't so stupid after all?

50:1 oils can be used in any ratio you want, up to 50:1.
50:1 is for economy of oil, clean running, no smoke. Not power or longevity.
40:1 is a pretty good compromise.

Ahhh! I love the smell of bean oil in the morning!

 

[Blaaster]

I can assure you if you are racing and are behind my lad or I, we have the advantage.

At 25:1 bean oil, what we leave in our wake, makes your eyes water and collect dust.

 

[best]

I can assure you if you are racing and are behind my lad or I, we have the advantage.

At 25:1 bean oil, what we leave in our wake, makes your eyes water and collect dust.

Not to mention as well the laxative properties of castor oil!

"First it's Blaaster, in second it's his lad, and then in turd..."

 

[Blaaster]

It's my lad first, i aint that fast anymore.

5 laps of our little track and I eat his dirt twice.

 

[Quadrider10]

I can assure you if you are racing and are behind my lad or I, we have the advantage.

At 25:1 bean oil, what we leave in our wake, makes your eyes water and collect dust.

and thats the other reason for not going to 25:1... haha ppl get really pissed off at the track when they have bean oil sellin up their pits! lol

 

[Blaaster]

/\ /\ /\ To those people,

 

[Quadrider10]

I can assure you if you are racing and are behind my lad or I, we have the advantage.

At 25:1 bean oil, what we leave in our wake, makes your eyes water and collect dust.

/\ /\ /\ To those people,

haha yuppp at first i was like "but i dont want ti bother them" now im like "fu&*em' eat my dirt and smell my smoke!"

lol mindset has changed!

 

[best]

and thats the other reason for not going to 25:1... haha ppl get really pissed off at the track when they have bean oil sellin up their pits! lol

Ha, when we go out sledding as a group, on the single track trails it is an oft spoken rule:
"SMOKERS IN THE BACK!"

Seriously, we sort our selves out 4 pokers to the front, from fastest to slowest,
newer, cleaner, and strawberry smelling smokers next,
heavy smokers to the rear.

When we get to a lake of big clearing it is a pure speed race, but once back on the trail everyone sorts by exhaust.

 

[Quadrider10]

Ha, when we go out sledding as a group, on the single track trails it is an oft spoken rule:
"SMOKERS IN THE BACK!"

Seriously, we sort our selves out 4 pokers to the front, from fastest to slowest,
newer, cleaner, and strawberry smelling smokers next,
heavy smokers to the rear.

When we get to a lake of big clearing it is a pure speed race, but once back on the trail everyone sorts by exhaust.

down to a science! lmao but i dont agree with that "smokers to the rear" part.

 

[Rich]

Boats and water craft can run a lower oil mix because they have the lake to keep the engine cool.Blaster relies on air and oil for cooling.32:1 Is a safe and dependable mix and is suffiecient to keep bearings in the crankcase well lubed.I only use quality 2 stroke motorcycle oils.

 

[Blaaster]

Marine 2 stroke oil is designed to protect the enviorment and is formulated to be used at lower concentrations and must be able to allow the motor to operate at lower rpms for long periods of time without oil fouling the spark plugs.

 

[slickerthanyou]

What's better about 32: 1 than 40:1 I'm thinking about goin bak to 40:1 what kind of change in jetting would I need to make?

Because we said so!


Really Blaaster explained very well! Remember also that premix oil and injection oil are two different types.

Premix will mix with gas very well and stay mixed usually at lower temps too with some exceptions of seperation.

Injection oil is thinner viscosity has different additives and will not premix very well at all.

There is oils out there now that are for both pre-mix and injection, the manufacturer of the oil will say what ranges are best most are 20:1 up to 50:1, some of the others like amsoil reccomend 50:1 to 100:1 this is just a range however, it's up to the user to correctly mix.
From amsoil website-
AMSOIL Power Sports - Online Lookup Guide
AMSOIL PowerSports Product Lookup Guide

From Klotz website-
R 50® TechniPlate®
Super TechniPlate®
BeNOL® Racing Castor Oil

Maxima-
2 Stroke : Maxima Racing USA, - Overkill

 

[Rich]

FOLLOW THE ABOVE RULE

If You Don't.... It's OK.... I Don't Care.... It's Not My Engine!!!!

Now, I know a lot of you out there who feel you can run things much leaner. Like 32 to 1 or 40 to 1 or even leaner. No less an expert than Bob Greene recommended a 32 to 1 mix and no less an expert than Gordon Jennings recommended a 20 to 1 mix. A lot of people run lean and a lot of them get away with it... and a lot of them don't. So what gives ? I feel the problem is this. No one really knows at what dilution the 2-stroke oils are mixed at or exactly what additives are added. At least I don't, and I've tried to find out a number of times. They send you a bunch of specs but will only say "Ours is the finest available." They never say why their $3.00 a quart oil is better then the $5.00 a quart stuff. Here are a few ideas to consider.

Let's look at dilution. At least that's my word for it, and I don't really mean the weight of the oil either. Most say they are a 30w. I mean the ratio of the stuff that counts to the stuff they put in to make it look and mix good. That make sense ? Probably not ! Well, think of it this way. If oil "A" is twice as thick as oil "B" and you mix both at 40 to 1, oil "A" will really be 20 to 1, right ? Now think about the reverse. If "A" is half as thick as oil "B" and you mix both at 40 to 1. "A" would now be 80 to 1. A bit lean right ? I don't think the real dilution ratios, between different oils, are that big. I do think there is enough of a difference between 2-stroke oils to cause a problem. Especially when you consider the additive package.

What about additives ? I think the manufacturers match the additive packages to the metallurgy of the metals in their engines. I once went to a Lawnboy lawnmower school where they bragged that the Lawnboy oil had almost no ash in it. They said this was really good for their engines. Another mechanic at the school said he had been to a Sachs chainsaw school and they told him there that the Sach engine needed ash. Their oil had lots of ash. Seems to me he said at least 2-3 % of ash, yet Lawnboy likes almost nothing... Why ? What about the other additives in the package ?

Here are some more things to consider. Most 2-stroke, motorcycle engines have fixed carb jets. This means changing the ratios will change the air fuel mix as oil is not gas ! Change the ratios and you may need to rejet the carb.

I have noticed that as an engine wears out the quality of its combustion declines. In other words it does not burn the fuel mixture as good as it once did. ( Well Duh ! ) As oil does not burn as good as gas, your plug tends to oil foul. Also, a worn engine will have worn seals too, letting oil in from the transmission. Now, you tell me. Do you maintain your Race Bike ( and that CR, RM, KX, YZ, etc, IS a full blown Race Bike ) to factory standards ? Do you know what those standards are ? You know... new rings every 3 motos, and all that other stuff ? Hint... they are in your shop manual.

My point is this. With 20 to 1 you will get enough of what ever is needed to keep your engine running, no matter what the manufacturer wanted. When your buddies say run 40 or more to 1 on your oil, watch out ! They may mean well, but what will it do to your bike over the long run ? Are you running 40-50 to 1 ? I know of no scientifically run tests that show less oil is better for your engine. On the contrary, I know of several that show more oil, jetted right, in a good engine, gives more horsepower. If your engine does seem to run better on less oil, you just might need to rejet, rebuild, or retune. If you insist on running lean on the oil, you better have done your homework !

One thing I do know... the worst thing that's going to happen to your engine at 20 to 1 is a fouled plug and maybe your spark arrester screens plugging up. Too lean and...Cuboom.

 

[Blaaster]

From Klotz website-
R 50® TechniPlate®
Super TechniPlate®
BeNOL® Racing Castor Oil

Maxima-
2 Stroke : Maxima Racing USA, - Overkill

The above sites provide detailed information on their products including viscosity.

Take note of a rule of thumb, both manufactures list that, the larger the capacity of a motor less oil is required.

For example, from the Maxima site,

50-80cc (24-32:1) | 125cc (24-40:1) | 250cc (24-40:1) | 500cc and up (32-60:1)

 

[best]

Rich touches on some good topics about dilution and additives.

First off, injector oil can be used as premix, but it isn't.
Buy a quart/litre bottle of premium 50:1 premix oil, holt it in one hand and a bottle of injector oil in the other.
Shake them ever so lightly. What do you feel?
The good premix is thicker. Like a milkshake compared to a soda.
Injector oil has to flow through a small pump at cold temps so it is thin and dilute.
It has to be burned at 20:1.

Now try shaking that quality premix (I like Ipone synthetic "strawberry" myself) against a bottle of cheap $5 premix.
You can feel the difference too. Something is missing.
If you are going to run 50:1 for whatever reason, you have to run a good oil.

Why would you run 50:1 if more is better?
Less smoke, less spooge dripping out the pipe and muffler, less carbon, less varnish.
Guess which one ran 40:1/50:1 Ipone? Which one ran cheap oil?

Castor bean oil has been the golden standard for 2 strokes for over 100 years.
It does work better and better the richer you run it.
It smokes, it carbons, it spooges and it builds up vanish, but it works.
In fact its film strength and protective varnish build up allow it to be used in some engines without rings.

For nickle silicon cylinders on most new bikes that are highly wear resistant 50:1 is not a bad idea.
Iron sleeves on the Blaster are more prone to wear, need more protection.
Unless you are using a premium oil, use a lot of it...

 

[Blaaster]

Rich touches on some good topics about dilution and additives.

I fully agree, lots of food for thought.

Iron sleeves on the Blaster are more prone to wear, need more protection.
Unless you are using a premium oil, use a lot of it...

One of the reasons I use 25:1 bean oil, but re-jet to correct the AFR.