Whats pistons have use used with 240's?

Oct 20, 2011
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im from uk and i cant get a 72.25 piston for a 240 kit, wondering what pistons use guys have used?
Do you think any of these will work?
Wiseco Piston Kit 72.25 mm Yamaha Venture 480 1991-1998 | eBay

Wiseco Piston Kit 72.25 mm Yamaha Mountain Lite 1997-1999 | eBay

Wiseco Piston Kit 72.25 mm Yamaha Phazer 1999-2001 | eBay

Wiseco Piston Kit 72.25 mm Polaris 500 Classic 2004-2006 | eBay

Wiseco Piston Kit 72.25 mm Polaris Indy Super Sport 488 1997-1998 | eBay

Also if it is a stock jug that is sleeved will a standard head work? Will standard head gaskets work?
 
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You have to get head machined for a 240. One of many things that is needed in a head is to have the squish band be correct. Squish band has nothing to do with the head gasket, it has to do with how the air/fuel mixture reacts in the combustion chamber under compression. If it's wrong you will hurt the piston. A 240 will start with a stock head but it won't run for long. There is not many 240 piston makers out there, but imo any forged piston is a good choice. Stay away from cast.
 
You have to get head machined for a 240. One of many things that is needed in a head is to have the squish band be correct. Squish band has nothing to do with the head gasket, it has to do with how the air/fuel mixture reacts in the combustion chamber under compression. If it's wrong you will hurt the piston. A 240 will start with a stock head but it won't run for long. There is not many 240 piston makers out there, but imo any forged piston is a good choice. Stay away from cast.

Hooooo do I see some comments coming.

Please explain why a cast piston is no good.:(
 
but imo any forged piston is a good choice. Stay away from cast.

Really? Ignorance is bliss.
Time to get educated...

Both work well as long as YOU do your part!
Here's some failed wiseco forged pistons... They're not "superman"...

2e1cahj.jpg

imagesCAR8V5SA.jpg

i513bp.jpg


I've always ran cast pistons with ZERO issues! and...I beat the crap out of my engines! The important part is to properly set up the piston to cylinder clearance,so you will not get any piston slap. The cast pistins require less clearance,because they don't swell and change shape as much as a forged piston as they heat up,so they sit right at .0015 clearance,or a smidgen more,and the forged piston requires more clearance because...well its forged,...meaning that the material its made of is much denser,and compressed,because of the forging process. A forged piston requires a bit more clearance depending on how its to be used. I set up clearance with forged pistons at .0025 to .003.

Both "Cast" and "Forged" pistons will serve you well. The forged piston will handle "detonation" easier than a cast,BUT...if you are set up properly and jetted correctly (which you should be) you will not have an issue with "detonation". The forged piston will require a religious warm up before riding,wich is not hard to do,because you can get a cold seize if your not careful. The cast piston is much more forgiving with short warm ups.

I've ran both,but prefer a cast piston. The Namura will serve you well.

I've had forged pistons swell up and get scuffed in a properly clearanced bore when it got hot,but not with a cast piston. Go figure. That was running them both hard in 105 to 106 degree weather under very heavy load.

I believe that if you do your part,either design will work well.
By the way...
The blaster wiseco "Pro lite" forged piston and a cast piston weigh the same.
Here's some pictures of failed pistons. Bothe forged and cast. I bet I could contribute the carnage to either ....
#1 improper jetting (too lean)
#2 Incorrect piston clearance
#3 DETONATION (too lean,too much spark advance,or both)
#4 wrong fuel to oil ratio (premix)
#5 Over heating combined with too lean of jetting
#6 High compression with poor quality fuel (DETONATION)
#7 or...a "combo plate" of more than one of the above.



Just set up either type piston properly, and do your part,and either will give good service.
READ THIS \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/
Here's a good short read...http://www.blasterforum.com/engine-13/namura-pistons-52827/
 
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I'm just trying to help the guy. No pistons are indistructable but if anyone is gonna argue that cast is as good or better than forged I disagree. Sure a cast piston will work for a while and will be cheaper but all high end engines from 8 cylinders to 1 run forged pistons. There is'nt a engine builder on earth that would say cast is better than forged. How the grane in the metal runs in forged pistons is superior to cast. There much stronger. Hell, I have a hand full of forged pistons that have failed do to operator error but that doesnt mean cast would have lived longer. If he wants to buy cast he can, he'll save a little money but imo forged is a much better piston. If worm up time is the only advantage for cast I would still take a forged any day and just worm the thing up. As far as piston swell, just have the cylinder machined properly. Usually when a forged piston fails you might loose a skirt or scuff the thing, when a cast fails it comes apart like a hand granade. I agree, do all the right things to your engine, if you do that the forged setup is the way to go imo.
 
Cast or forged, when any piston fails and comes apart it is going to punch a hole in the case.

Cast is much more forgiving for them that "just wanna ride," without proper warm up.

Why does the engine builder (Yamaha) use a cast piston if they are inferior?

I have been thrashing the crap out of a cast piston for the past 7 years with no problems.
 
Yeah, modern hypereutectic cast pistons are pretty tough and are the piston of choice in non-boost situations. Used in most factory high performance applications, cars, bikes, snowmobiles and quads. Forged pistons are softer and have a higher rate of expansion. In spite of the brittleness, the hardness and silicon grain of the hypereutectic cast piston works in its favour to make it last longer and make more horsepower than a similar forged piston (clearance and friction losses).

Pick a non-turbo performance machine and it likely has a hypereutectic cast piston in it.
Mustang GT 5.0L HO? Hypereutectic cast piston.
YZ250? Hypereutectic cast piston.
KTM 300? Hypereutectic cast piston.
Arctic cat F7? Hypereutectic cast piston.

Steve
 
Yeah, modern hypereutectic cast pistons are pretty tough and are the piston of choice in non-boost situations. Used in most factory high performance applications, cars, bikes, snowmobiles and quads. Forged pistons are softer and have a higher rate of expansion. In spite of the brittleness, the hardness and silicon grain of the hypereutectic cast piston works in its favour to make it last longer and make more horsepower than a similar forged piston (clearance and friction losses).

Pick a non-turbo performance machine and it likely has a hypereutectic cast piston in it.
Mustang GT 5.0L HO? Hypereutectic cast piston.
YZ250? Hypereutectic cast piston.
KTM 300? Hypereutectic cast piston.
Arctic cat F7? Hypereutectic cast piston.

Steve

From what I understand from racing cars all my life (sprint cars now) is that a hypereutectic piston isnt a true cast piston. They are in between a cast and a forged. In a lower class car I used to race we were breaking cast pistons and tryed a hypereutectic and had good luck with them. I'm not sure if the cast pistons for Blasters are hyper's or a true cast. If their true cast pistons and not hyper's I would not buy them. As far as why do factory engines use them, because of price. Everything we buy is built by the cheapest bidder. They must keep overhead low. A cast piston will last for a while and when, not if it fails thats more money going to the manufacturer for the rebuild. If those machines you listed were in a trailer headed to a race they would have forged pistons in them. I'm talking about well built engines of race quality(Blaster included). Sprint cars are a non-boost engine and you wont find a cast piston in any of them. With the compression/rpm combination a cast would explode right away, we have to run forged just to get the thing to live for a while.That is why I said all high end, not stock engines run forged. As far as cast making more horsepower than a forged I dont beleive it. That would mean that the forged is rubbing the cylinder walls to cause that power lose. If that happens I dont care about the power lose, I'm gonna care that my engine is seconds away frome blowing up. There is no power lose by simply installing a forged piston. I'm glad some guys have had good luck with cast pistons but imo if you do everything right the forged setup is still the way to go. I know most people will never race their quads, I just have my opinion on how to build the best engine possible. Have a great day.
 
From what I understand from racing cars all my life (sprint cars now) is that a hypereutectic piston isnt a true cast piston. They are in between a cast and a forged.

Your statement confuses me...
"Cast" and "forged" refers to the manufacturing process of the piston.
"true cast piston" makes no sense. Its either a "Cast" piston,or its "Forged" piston. There is no fence sitting,or grey area.


As far as why do factory engines use them, because of price. Everything we buy is built by the cheapest bidder. They must keep overhead low. A cast piston will last for a while and when, not if it fails thats more money going to the manufacturer for the rebuild.[/quote
This also is incorrect. The cast piston is used by the manufacturer,because it will work under a large variety of parameters to keep that engine running without issues like...

Operating under high heat without excessive expansion
No cold four corner seizure because of no warm up.
reduced audible piston slap.
Reduced oil consumtion (four strokes)

A manufacturer like Yamaha and others would have a "Warranty nightmare" just from the cold seizure (no warm up time) alone, if forged pistons were used as factory installed oem pistons.

I also have no issues on any of my blaster that are running cast pistons and I have many modifications.

I beleive that preventing detonation is the key.
 
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heres my 3 week old wiseco this is why you leak test
testscan869.jpg

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the motor got soo hot the wrist pin is siezed to the piston and will not come out
 
Hypereutectic means more than the normal dissolved amount.
Soda water is hypereutectic in that it contains an excess of CO2.
With our aluminum pistons it is silicon, anything over 11% silicon.

I won't try to duplicate the Wiki article above, but build on it.
Forged pistons start out as a cast slug of a softer more malleable aluminum that typically has very little silicon in it, because silicon increases resistance to the deformation that will be needed to shape this cast slug. Forging is a good method for a medium sized manufacturer because a variety of piston sizes and shapes can be made for a significant tooling cost reduction over a precision casting operation. Most of the variety is done with the precision machining. A single bulk slug casting and forging operation can be machined into a wide variety of pistons. Plus the low silicon alloy machines MUCH better than high silicon alloys.

Blaaster can probably add or correct me on any details here, he has a background in piston technology.

Casting pistons uses a different allow that takes advantage of the better thermal expansion, strength, heat and wear resistant values of high silicone alloys. These alloys can vary from very little (2% HYPOeutectic) for diesels and low cost applications, to as much as 25% although most ran pretty close to the 11% before improved casting technology came around to allow higher percentages. Most manufacturers don't readily share their silicon % and alloy composition and heat treatments, and it wouldn't matter much if they did, because it is not as simple as all that. Manufacturers rely on application and reputation to sell their wares. They build a piston for the application as they see fit to, and change the specs and process as they see fit to. This has seen the gradual increase in high silicon and hypereutectic pistons in use as this technology becomes widespread and old production lines are shut down.

So more silicon is better? Why?
It reduces the thermal expansion of the piston, which gets hotter than the cylinder anyway, so tighter clearances can be used. It is not prone to swell up and get stuck in a cold cylinder (heat seize or 4 corner seize). The aluminum is harder and more wear resistant and has a lower coefficient of friction than low silicon alloys. Some engines actually had cylinders of hypereutectic silicon alloy and etched the aluminum away for the piston rings to run on the silicon matrix (grains) in the metal (Chevy Vega, Porche). The silicon actually increases the strength of the aluminum allow and makes it much more resistant to deformation. Skirts keep their shape and size tolerance better. This does come at the cost of brittleness. And the silicon helps to keep piston strength as you approach the melting point of the aluminum. As temperatures get higher, low silicon alloys will start melting and smearing at the friction points much before a high silicon piston will. The low silicon forging alloy is more prone to welding itself to the bore surface as well.

So why do race teams use forged pistons?
1) More piston shapes are available, due to cheaper manufacturing and machining.
2) Less damaged by engines that run "over the edge" into detonation. Still damaged, but bent, not shattered.
3) Controlled warm up. Cold start seizures can be prevented. Engine built for warm condition.
4) Not concerned about wear life or minute friction advantages. Make big power for a little while.

So why don't performance car and bike manufacturers use more forged pistons?
1) Besides cost, OEM have to meet emission, fuel economy, warranty, and life-cycle targets.
2) Forged piston's wide clearance variation creates emission and economy problems.
3) Forged pistons take special care that will cause noise and warranty issues, and shorter lifecycles.
4) Cast pistons meet all these targets in well designed engines that don't detonate.

I do have a lot of experience with cast-vs-forged pistons in KTM 125 bikes and Sea-Doo's, snowmobiles, V8 engines, turbo and supercharged applications. In the sleds, bikes and SeaDoo the quality cast piston was the hands down winner. Less fuss, longer life, more power. Yes, more power. I run the KTM125 at high constant speeds and I can see the difference.

If you are going to run a 2 stroke engine close to the detonation edge on purpose, by all means run a forged piston if you are willing to do the careful warm ups EVERY time you start up your machine.

If you want "wash and wear", start her up and take off - Cast is your piston.
What about detonation? Don't do it.
Listen to our tips on how to make 30-40 hp without risking detonation and you will have a lot of trouble free miles on cast.

Steve
 
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If you want "wash and wear", start her up and take off - Cast is your piston.
What about detonation? Don't do it.
Listen to our tips on how to make 30-40 hp without risking detonation and you will have a lot of trouble free miles on cast.

Steve

X2, and all the other stuff too.