His new girlfriend.
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I'm sorry slick, my comment was partially tongue in cheek. I do appreciate advice on setup and process. Every day is a learning adventure and I try to soak in as much knowledge as possible. Advice, even that given when not asked for, is valuable.
You would flycut a surface that HAS to be flat and send it out without checking it first? And if it's not flat, what would you do? Lap it? Thought so....
So what's the difference to cutting the head to within lapping range and then lapping it to final size? It takes more time and the initial "rough" cut isn't free from defects but, if after lapping, the finished product is perfectly smooth and to the desired dimensions, what's the difference how I got there? Even if I used a body rasp and DA orbital sander to get there, as long as it's flat and the right size, why would it matter the method I used?
How flat does a head have to be (surface variation, like would be left from making multiple passes?
I measured it this afternoon. Where those two cutter passes come together there is approximately a .001" step. I say approximately because the tail end of my calipers are only so exact. It's BARELY enough to feel and nothing a few spins on the lapping stone won't cure.
Is that enough to be a problem? We use a tool similar to the one you were using, sized for the CAT40 spindle and about a 40% over lap. Working with plates as large as 30"x40", a single pass isn't practical but we hold them to .0005" in both thickness and surface variation. The trick is holding the parts. It's obvious the the work you were doing wasn't vise work, but a vise you had and you got it done. I started on a fixture to hold Blaster head, both in a chuck and clamped to the mill bed, somewhat like were describing. I made a stud the I could screw into the plug hole and drilled/tapped the other end .5"-13. Then I made 6 stand offs, each one will fit into a head stud hole. The standoffs would have been pressed into a pilot hole on the fixture base plate (for alignment) and held with 5/16 cap screws. And the pressure will be applied by tightening the .5"-13 a bolt through the fixture base into the stud into the plug hole. I got everything made, except the base and I just never had time to make it. I will made it from 1.5" plate steel that I will have to grind flat and turn it round. If I got to where I thought I needed to do a head, I could finish off the fixture in a couple of hours.
Apparently the way I did it was a problem with someone. I didn't "do it right" and I "ruined that head". I was so proud of myself for making shicken calad out of shickenchit I smiled the whole time it was taking material off that head.
I see a few issues with the above "suggested" method (not yours dksix) of holding a head plane smooth I took pictures of while I was out there. I also finished (for giggles) my steel channel head jig (of DEATH!). I'm waiting on photobucket to load the pics before I can post them
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Sicvicdude I have enjoyed the pictures and reading your posts. Im excited for you as many of us are There is always a bit of tinkering when you get a new machine. Awesome..
I don't have a problem with anything that is said, by anyone. There is always other ways to do things the yield the same finished results. I never look at the piece of a process as being wrong, if the product comes out right. The Banshee head, you said, came out spot on. It's not the way I would have done it, I was more in line with the way Ken explained. I would have clamped it flat to the bed and spot milled the head stud holes to the same place and mounted on those points to shave the head. As long as the pissing match stay a civil as they have, I think it's good for the site. It gets the talented guy active and alot of information flows out of the exchanges. I'm not an engine guy, so I stay out of those threads but I know a bit about machining, so these exchanges are interesting to me.
i wanna play with your new toy, i havent used ametal lathe since high school and have wanted on since, and it has a mill
i dunno what id make but ill figure something out
i dunno what id make but ill figure something out
The top of a stock banshee head:
There are 4 "nibs" we're talking about pictured. One of them on this head is damaged:
Who knows how much would have to come off of all 4 to clean that mess up?
There are a few issues with "setting it on parallels"
This way, the coolant nipple is in the way:
This way the spark plug hole is in the way:
And if you machined down those "nibs" the spark plug hole would actually be "lower" than your mounting location:
Solution to the problem:
Doesn't look like much yet, but those shiny dots are transfer punched divots:
After drilling and tapping 8 of the 10 head stud holes (two lined up close to the edge) the two spark plug holes, and a clearance hole for the coolant nipple:
And what it will look like with a head on it:
Now, I'm going to get 8 jam nuts and 8 regular nuts. If the "nibs" aren't damaged, I can lower the nuts down until the spark plug holes and "nibs" are touching the channel (giving me not just 4 contact points, but 14!) If the nibs are beyond repair, I can simply raise the nuts a thread or two and have 8 contact points. Granted, it will be harder to get all 8 nuts sitting perfect but I can take a little while longer to get it level. I have an indicator and time on my hands.
There are 4 "nibs" we're talking about pictured. One of them on this head is damaged:
Who knows how much would have to come off of all 4 to clean that mess up?
There are a few issues with "setting it on parallels"
This way, the coolant nipple is in the way:
This way the spark plug hole is in the way:
And if you machined down those "nibs" the spark plug hole would actually be "lower" than your mounting location:
Solution to the problem:
Doesn't look like much yet, but those shiny dots are transfer punched divots:
After drilling and tapping 8 of the 10 head stud holes (two lined up close to the edge) the two spark plug holes, and a clearance hole for the coolant nipple:
And what it will look like with a head on it:
Now, I'm going to get 8 jam nuts and 8 regular nuts. If the "nibs" aren't damaged, I can lower the nuts down until the spark plug holes and "nibs" are touching the channel (giving me not just 4 contact points, but 14!) If the nibs are beyond repair, I can simply raise the nuts a thread or two and have 8 contact points. Granted, it will be harder to get all 8 nuts sitting perfect but I can take a little while longer to get it level. I have an indicator and time on my hands.
The picture above, the "line" that's left between the two passes is GREATLY exaggerated by the flash. Here's one from a slightly different angle where you can make out the "line" in the middle of the head. Note no line on either end I made a square as I worked around and shut down the mill while it was still powerfeeding so there would be no starting or stopping point, only that line down the middle to deal with:
And because some on here think I'm too dumb to even remember how to tie my own shoes, I labelled the jig so I won't forget what it fits
I made a square as I worked around and shut down the mill while it was still powerfeeding so there would be no starting or stopping point, only that line down the middle to deal with:
And because some on here think I'm too dumb to even remember how to tie my own shoes, I labelled the jig so I won't forget what it fits
Honestly, this machine doesn't have the "ass" or range of a full sized mill but I think my (and your) imagination is the limit....
I'm completely stoked about it man!
im digging through craigslist as we speak, i aint gonna be decking heads or anything but using my benchtop drillpress as a makeshift lathe with files and hacksaws is getting old quick...hell i dont even have a vice mounted
i could carve metal into shapes other than round and bumpy...
now you can work on your weird multilink long travel no bumpsteer blaster stilts
good luck bro xmas came early
can you cut threads with this machine?
End of story!!!
Banshee head - YouTube
Done in less than 30 minutes with vids and Tarmo training. I don't need to check or lap it. It's perfect!
Banshee head - YouTube
Done in less than 30 minutes with vids and Tarmo training. I don't need to check or lap it. It's perfect!
So the nibs and plug hole must be level! Something you don't learn from any other builder or site! I:I
Not only is the info valuable, It is the way some make a living! Not many will share the how and why with you and the world in detail with videos!
I think the video answers the second half.
I think this is bordering harrassment, since I said to put this in your own thread. This one is for pictures of CIVIC's lathe and what CIVIC is doing with it. He didn't ask for opinions. He didn't ask for "help." I don't want MY thread having crap thrown into it again, and that's exactly what is happening. This is not Ken O'Connor's new tool thread. It's for my husband.
I wouldn't consider what kens posting is crap all he's doing is giving civic pointers on how to better and cut his time in work which in the end means more profit, I think we all need to calm down, both ken and civic are invaluable to the site, ken for his yrs and civic for his deathly experimental min, I hate seeing valuable threads turn into who's got the bigger swinger. i am sure all ken was trying to do is expand civics mind. Lets act our age.
I don't think there is anything wrong with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism that Ken is offering, in fact it's probably very useful to your husband. If he doesn't want to use his help, then he won't and he can learn by himself, but Ken's posts will help more than just your husband. And Ken isn't even posting about his lathe, he's posting how to properly use one, to help a new guy out in the engine industry. Would've never thought that would cause any problems. :-/
Well, knowing that a piece of channel isn't terribly flat I went to it today. I threw it in the vise and milled the two "legs" flat to the top. I then flipped it over with the freshly leveled bottoms and face milled the top (yes, in two passes.... 8-|) flat too.
Oh, of course, I relabelled it.
I also measured the beat up stud today on the stone.
It's about .015" lower than the other 5 points. I can just lay it upside down on the channel and rock it to that side. While that could be taken down it would require removal of that much off the spark plug hole. I can imagine that this isn't the most damaged machining "nib" out there.
Oh, of course, I relabelled it.
I also measured the beat up stud today on the stone.
It's about .015" lower than the other 5 points. I can just lay it upside down on the channel and rock it to that side. While that could be taken down it would require removal of that much off the spark plug hole. I can imagine that this isn't the most damaged machining "nib" out there.
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