Porting and blowdown

I clearly see a four corner seizure, or a start of one. It can be brought on by many things. That is without question.

you still haven't addressed the 4 point seizure at least 2 members say they clearly see in the pics.
danced right around those suggestions, as you did all of kens suggestions to try and figure this out before.

which BTW, no way a piston 4 point seized if it was as loose in the bore as you claim.
 
why not just send it back to ken
so everything can be to your needs??
If ken wants to inspect it/or do your 19cc head??

seems like that is what should be happening.
ken has fixed cylinders from Young guns racing that were not even in his shop:)

and he gives free work away every year for christ sake litteraly:)
 
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Why did my questions not get answered? From all I have seen you are sold that Ken made a mistake and take no credibility yourself other than I should have bought the correct tools for the job. What makes you think the ones you are using are satisfactory enough to go bashing a builder? If you should have bought them that means they are the only tool for the job. The last 2 replies you posted clearly show that you are hostile against Ken. From what I gather from reading this thread through is you were more than happy with his work. Had the bike running for a bit. Decided you needed to adjust god only knows what and tear the top end off after already running it. Mind you dirty as can be in the pics. Get it running and back together, ride for atleast 2 hours trying to jet it. Then you are quiet. Now you are blaming him for the wrong bore size, for not rechambering a head that will only work for you. How can you make accusations with fisher price measuring tools? How about the 4 point seizure? Something is not adding up here. Did you go tear it back apart for more "porting" that we do not know about? Then decide the bore is off? Looking from the outside in, smells like poo.
 
you still haven't addressed the 4 point seizure at least 2 members say they clearly see in the pics.
danced right around those suggestions, as you did all of kens suggestions to try and figure this out before.

which BTW, no way a piston 4 point seized if it was as loose in the bore as you claim.

I haven't addressed the accusation of 4 point sezure because that is the most ridiculous ini have ever heard , while certainly not accurate for doing such work a feeler guage will not just fit right in with out scratching and scarring ( especially a curved surface ) unless there is more than room for a guage.
I don't do engine work for a ivinf and don't own a dial bore guage, with all previous motor jobs I have always been able to successfully trust my machinist, never had a problem, had I known I could not trust Ken to even look into it . I would have at least got a set of new T guages , and a decent 2-3 inch micrometer and checked it before.
The only target on me, you had the audacity after helping me through the bottom end , replacing and not cleaning the main bearings and such ,to turn around and suggest that I never even split the cases.

I never suggested any misdoing other than my own, and never asked anything of Ken but to help me determine what happened, which he is not required and did not do. Lots of questions and accusations ,but no answers. So after seeking the advice of not one but two local professionals, one which I liked and one who was a total massaginistic ahole. Both agreed there was excessive clearance, both confirmed it had to have been cut that way, one even suggested I "soften" the top curve and radius of my exhaust port or I might run into ring wear problems sooner than the 40 hours I was hoping to get out of it. Something to do with the ring wear lines on either side of the exhaust port and how the ring wear would be less if those two areas where the rings absorb the force of coming back out of the exhaust port were spread out and wider.
Anyhow only after that did I suggest any error on Kens behalf. The funny thing is i dont see you posting up that conversation unedited. I already admitted to "letting him have it" anyone who just left not one but two shops with the same answer would have.
And go figure, that the new piston which is roughly 5.5 thou larger at the skirt fit easily with no lube through the bore.
As well as the FACT that the heat and destruction that would have been caused by wearing away .005 of material in less than an hour of no load and a couple hours of moderate load would have caused a nasty seizure with balled up aluminim stuck in the piston and chewed into the bore.
I am now not even going to bother to take any further picture or time on this , I would sooner drop a grand and line up ten different professionals in the field, and present them with what is now a toy for my 4 year old, and see you refute a video report of what they saw. ( he thinks its fun dropping then piston through the bore and listening t the thud on the floor, and thinks the piston looks great as a wheel on his little trucks tst he builds.). But really I got too much going on wasting any more time with this crap, I got screwed, no biggie , maybe he needed the money to keep up the bills on all that high dollar machinery ,any thing that could make he and his entire staff ,flawless, blameless and incapable of a mistake must be expensive. I make plenty of mistakes, the one that caused excessive clearance, wasn't one of them.
 
I
why not just send it back to ken
so everything can be to your needs??
If ken wants to inspect it/or do your 19cc head??

seems like that is what should be happening.
ken has fixed cylinders from Young guns racing that were not even in his shop:)

and he gives free work away every year for christ sake litteraly:)

I tired to get ken to look at it first pics I sent he told me everythin looked normal he didn't see any thing of any concern and I just be mistaken , since he didn't see anything of concern with wear and he doesn't make mistakes. Suggested I quit worring and just run it.
After I checked with a couple machinists and found out what he had done, he cut ties refused to ship a pending order (did refund it) and asked I not communicate any further with him, all this before even asking why I was so upset. When dealing with the public you run into angry people all the time, often their crazies and occasionally something really happened, after 5 years in an auto service dept. I know that. After asking me not to contact him any further, without even considering the possibility thatsomeone in his shop could have made a mistake or cut a corner, he starts this witch hunt. So whoever cut my bore without realizing that the piston was under spec (which is rare maybe that eBay piston was sold out the back door of wiseco), or possibly I am a horrible midget minion and had it turned down .005" before sending with my cylinder who knows. But I do know whoever done my bore is still probably still there unchecked ,to cause more errors to go out the door. I tried to be decent but when you are wrote off without a glance under the reasoning that a business never has nor ever will make a mistake. I have everything well documented, reports from a machinist (notorized) and pretty much everything in line to win a small claims case, considering he never even offered to look at it, refused further communicstion, then harassed me publicly. I really don't think I will have a problem recovering my losses.
Like I just said I make mistakes all the time my i found out my exhaust port even with a good chamfer wil probably wear rings quickly and I better keep an eye on compression every ten hours (which I finally had to drop 70 on a decent guage). Problem is this clearance issue was not my mistake.

Anyhow I am sick of answering up to random coordinated attacks, I graduated high school over 20 years ago and really grow tired of this stuff.
So for a note of something useful out of this thread, anyone who is unfsmiliar with engine building tool and measuring tools and would like to learn more about all this micrometer, standards, dial bore guages and all the other neat gadgets that engine shops have at their disposal check out www.goodson.com they have a lot of good little tech articles on various subjects.
I learned from this experience and will never blindly assume my machinist has done their job and will ask to see the measurements before it leaves their temperature controlled shop, or in the case of online deals, measure with a minimum of a T-guage and a decent caliper, preferably a decent micrometer. T handles and a 2-3 inch mic. Can be had for under a hundred , T handles and a caliper under 50. Even a basic caliper reading would have caught an error this large and prevented all of this.

And just remember guys I said nothing publicly until threatened and taunted by both Ken and AWK, this whole fiasco was their creation not mine.
 
But really when moderators and staff are attacking you who knows who is a real person not just random characters created as minions, to bash some one, but whatever this is why advertisers/ business owners and there errand boys aren't moderstors and forum operators, its unethical to say the least and illegal in most states. So enjoy your little world where your king and I hope you you creations and the blind sheeple followers who don't know any better enjoy, there are about ten thousand machinists out there who will bore a cylinder from 40 to $80. And 5000 think they are infallable, the rest are decent except for the 2000 that don't even try don't have standards in their shop and don't keep temps.
Therir is no doubt Ken could do fine work of he chooses, but no way was he gonna let me come in off e street and have any success without at least sinking double what the original creator charged for his templates?
Enjoy guys ,soon enough I will be too busy with the real world to waste anymore time here, and you can sweep this under e rug and get back to running this place for its intended purpose.
 
Too late my tail by the way ,if you wanted to make it right you could but you let me know right from the start that what you done to my cylinder was no mistake, but the reason for ppal and bbb complaints is to prevent business owners from using venues such as this to treat a customers unfairly. But what ever you have my email and my address, if you want to resume reasonable dialogue between reasonable men, you can tell the people here whatever you want.
 
At this point it seems silly to keep beating the dead horse. Are you going to get another cylinder and start over or have yours bored for a new piston? I hope this chronicle continues.
 
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Don't blame anyone in this shop for making a mistake because it didn't happen. My son measured your piston and bored your cylinder to the size of the piston. I personally honed your cylinder to .003" of clearance. Wiseco recommends .002" for a MINIMUM piston clearance. Head mods and porting increase cylinder temperatures, we add a bit more for thermal expansion. Same thing we do to every race bike we get in here. Cylinders are bored and checked with one set of gages, when I hone, I use another set. To even insinuate I bored, and honed your cylinder without measuring your piston is ludicrous. Where are the high definition pics? My guess is that you saw something that reveals you sucked a sh*tload of dirt into the engine. Can it happen in four hours? It can happen in two minutes. Dirt and oil make lapping compound. Why not send the piston to the people who made it and find out what happened. Wiseco may surprise you and tell you that the heat treat wasn't up to spec. Did anyone Rockwell test your E-Bay piston? This entire fiasco might not even be your fault. I don't deal with many complaints, but when I have to, I do the best I can to make the customer happy. When I'm told I'm not measuring pistons before I bore cylinders, called names, and threatened with Pay-pal and BBB claims. I let the big dogs take over. You made a claim with Pay-pal. Why would I refund your money? You made your case, I made mine. Let them figure it out. They'll give you your money back or take the money off hold in mine. I have no problem with taking care of anyone on this forum, as I've done many times in the past. Most of these jobs didn't even come out of my shop but I've fixed them for little to no expense. When you accuse my shop of shady work, slander my business on the net, and refuse to work with me, what do you expect? If your getting crap from forum members, there's a reason for it. You say one thing but the pics you posed show another. Here's a pic of a YZ250 engine that we just assembled today in the shop. See the case bond? See how clean it is?
IMG_1341.JPG
Now here's a pic (that you took) of your fresh bottom end rebuild. See the difference? No case bond, filthy assembly. This is why your "assembly" and dirt were a concern of mine. Why should I have to pay for your mistakes? I've been doing this a long time, and there's no way on the face on Gods earth that you cleaned that bottom end out. You should do it now before you install your new top end.
20151114_233500.jpg
 
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surely, after seeing this post in the stainless bolts thread dated sept 26, back when this bottom end was supposedly being split and rebuilt, one would assume all bottom end parts were ordered from KOR......"(Folding lockwashers, snaprings, alignment pins, gaskets, etc.)" ?

I realized when on the KOR site checking out the alignment pins, that he has stainless bolts, and all of the oem parts that need replaced, once you take them off. (Folding lockwashers, snaprings, alignment pins, gaskets, etc.)
If you need oem blaster parts, particularly engine related parts, Ken has them all together and easy to find on his website, no need to wade through exploded views. He also has the aftermarket parts an pieces, that we need to make the blaster better or easier to work on (stainless bolts, forged piston kits, etc).
deeeebeeeeee,Sep 26, 2015
 
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i don't want to be rude to anybody
that's not my nature.
but 46 DIFFERENT THREADS of problems/question.
OCD and trying to push boundaries with porting
I MEAN SOMETHING WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.
like i said it would have been the same story unfolded
if it was the local shop.

if you can look through 46 threads of reading
in 3 months of joining

deebee 46 threads.png
 
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I think I'm done with this thread. I've seen enough.

This is my take...
That's a four corner seizure, or pre-seizure if there is such a thing.

You say the bottom end was gone through, but in my opinion after looking at your photos, that bottom end looks pretty scroungy to have just been recently gone through. Just my opinion.

I can't see your chamfering very well in the photos,but it doesn't look like a smooth transition, at least on the top of the exhaust port.

I'm still trying to figure out why you would re-adjust port timing after initial break in.

I personally would have purchased the porting templates and proceeded with confidence. Just my opinion.

The head you received is perfect for your application. That's what I would have sent you.

Your earlier posts after re-assembly and ride report, made it sound like the power output was like a rocket engine, then you say all this stuff. I don't get it.

I think something happened to cause this and it wasn't bad machine work. If clearances were that great from the start, a four corner seizure never would have happened, assuming jetting was correct, and the pre-mix was correct for the jetting.

You even go as far as saying that someone could have gotten hurt really bad or killed on it, etc.. My advice? put it back to bone stock and put the TORS back on. If your worried about someone getting hurt, no modifications should have ever been done in the first place.

Why would you do a bottom end but not do the big end bearing? Makes no sense.

I'm done with this jerry springer drama.

Next thread....
 
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Would seem if it was caused by dirty assembly there would be scaring in the cyl and on piston, tho no good side shot of piston to judge that. The two "marks" on either side of ex port are to straight and uniform to be anything other than marks from the feeler gauges (IMO).
There doesn't appear to be enough carbon on piston crown to be much run time.
Even if you slathered the piston with valve grinding compound, might not have been enough run time to wear a piston that much, and there'd still be evidence of scaring on both pieces.

I guess ther is also the possibility that the piston could have been inferior material somehow.

Of the 4-5 cyls I've done recently, only one ring needed filing for gap, rest were at minimumor hair more.
 
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There is no way those 2 marks by the exhaust port are made with a feeler gauge. Flat gauge on round bore but leaves perfectly symmetrical marks. Clearly ring wear.
 
Did he use a harbor freight feeler gauge with a razor sharp serrated burr on it, and vigorously and rapidly insert and withdraw it like it was his wedding knight? :oops:o_O;):confused:
 
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