National Pipe

[deeeebeeeeee]

Not looking to hear anything about don't get, don't go, because I already got it as it came on My bike.
Anyhow I was able to match up my pipe and silencer to find it is a DG national pipe (clear coated alum? I think) and repackable Type II oval silencer.
Looks like for the blaster Dg made at least: old school dg pipe, Dg National pipe and Dg Xtreme pipe. As well as a few different generations and flavors of silencer.
According to the manufacturer the National pipe is a Mid-High range pipe, since it came with the bike and I don't realay have anyone other blasters to ride, I don't have much to compare it to.
In its current state of tune, it seems quite flat down low with a strong hit that pulls hard up until shift, with only a little over Rev before it tops out.
To get an idea of what it has (or doesnt) overall it has 13/40 gearing and 18x9.5s in the rear. I weigh around 130lbs. And can stand it up pretty good in third (if it doesn't spin too much), but it really doesn't seem to have the power or clutch to get it up in fourth.
I really don't know what it has on the inside of the motor, but with a stock, carb, reed cage, etc. I am betting it probably has been bored a bit during rebuild probably not been ported. When I got it it hadn't even been jetted.

Back on topic my question is about the pipe, does it seem like it is in line with what most would consider mid-high range pipe? The motor seems stock other than its now jetted and piped, as well as air box lid delete.

When rebuild time comes, I plan to do a little port work. Whether it needs bored or not will determine if I send it off or just clean things up a bit on my own following the KOR DIY port with the addition of a decent motor head, flex cable, and hand unit.

Anyhow I was trying to get a little more info in the national pipe versus the old school pipe (low-mid) and the extreme pipe (mid high to high) and hope to keep the comparison among the offerings of this single brand.

Thanks db

 

[jus_me]

Interesting, i dint know this. To bad you dont have another pipe to compare to. By what you describe it does sound better than any other dg review i have heard... Any way of posting up some pics of the pipe?

 

[deeeebeeeeee]

I will get some pics in the daylight, not alot to compare it to but at 450 feet I am running around a 300 main jet, once it warms up its buring nicely (plug checked with bright light and small magnifying glass, I am too cheap to cut a new plug),
Funny thing tho' it does look similar to a factory pipe, but so does the fmf. If you look closely it has a more open curve coming off of the head, and it's longer from the head to the peak of the open cone.

I don't know how much more air it is able to flow over stock, probably not much hence the poor performance on built motors with a larger carb as compared to many of the race pipes.
Although I admittedly have limited experience, if feel the DG does what it is supposed to which is move the power band to produce more over one range (mid to mid high) at the expense of another range (low, and high (past shift point). This suits me fine I can still tune it to pull fairly low, or to pull hard from mid to peak (supposed to be what it is designed for.)

If i had the extra 100 dollars I would pick up the toomey B1 currently on ebay, just to see the difference in a mid pipe and a top pipe on a stock motor, and have them both to run once I rebuild/mildly build the motor.
I imagine if I could adapt my style with early shifts in the lower gears to avoid excessive wheelspin, the toomey would be faster as it is said it keeps much of the power thru mid, while providing more at peak and beyond.

At the end of the day I need to try another pipe designed for a similar powerband to know just what the dg is doing, but I got a feeling that even with Good Compression, air box cover removed, new filter that a stock pipe wouldn't pull a 300 main jet.
So i guess it must be doing some good, but i am cautious to take to much stock in even what the jetting says unless and until I do a leak test.
I actually do plan on a leak test, but so far the flywheel side cover was free of oil and fuel, as well as the ancient transmission oil I removed when I got it. I am not seeing any signs of external leaks,and generous doses of ether around the case seals bottom gasket, intake boot etc. Didnt change the idle. So I will guess it has only a small leak if any but seeing some of the "work" that was done in other places, I am taking nothing for granted.

Anyone here went from a dg (which one) to another mid range pipe, on a motor with stock internals? What jetting changes were needed?, was the power made in a similar range? More or less overall.

 

[Herpderplol]

Anyone here went from a dg (which one) to another mid range pipe, on a motor with stock internals? What jetting changes were needed?, was the power made in a similar range? More or less overall.

I ran a DG when i first bought my white blaster. Im not sure which one it was, but it was a dog.

Im not sure if i needed to change some stuff on the engine or what but i never had power. i could barely do a wheelie in first. (13/40 with 18s)
the powerband came on right in the middle but was more like V-tech unicorn farts i thought. almost ran like a 4 stroke

i later switched to the LRD adjustable. it was as short as possible and gave it a little mid-high rpm power. but still couldnt get a good pull in third

(just to continue the tale) Next I had the motor rebuild, ported and head mod. Switched to DMC for low end power. could pull wheelies in 4th and 5th

 

[jus_me]

If you are infact leak free and a proper plug chop confirms. You sound about where i am on an fmf but i have allot more work going on. I am actualy playing it safe with a 300 main. I havnt plug chopped yet but i will soon. I have a very nice yet hard mid range pull in any gear yet my throttle is limitwd to only 1/2 thrtle. Ill open up the thrtle in nxt cple days and see how she acts.

 

[Herpderplol]

I dont suggest spending your extra $100 on the toomey.

First off, it doesnt have the flange, so thats an extra 40-60 you have to spend
secondly its is more of a top end pipe

if you find a cheap used fmf that would be your best trial.
the dg flange will work for it.
the silencer matches up.
its a great mid overall pipe

 

[deeeebeeeeee]

Thanks for the info, no wonder that B1 is only 100 the same guy is selling the flange seperately, not a bad way to go, someone might already have one or the other.

JUS-me what elevation are you at. 300 is a pretty safe range for me as well, runs rich on the hottest of days 95+ Degrees.
Bought it used, and just been fixing it a little bit at a time, I will get to a leak test (fingers crossed), as well as a compression test and such, just to see what maintenance work needs done, seals, rings etc. Until then I want to be sure notp to run lean.

Just to ride it, seems like it's in pretty good shape, but my but dyno is quite out of tune.

 

[theresnoname4me]

I too have a dg on for now. Not sure which one but to me it seems to pull well. Haven't ripped it wide open. Only had my blaster for a couple months now. But I've rebuilt it with a nice ported cylinder vforce reeds put a 290 mj in but haven't tested it. I've set it for 3/4 throttle. Barely have went past half though.
As for the pipe since rebuild it doesn't seem like the powerband kicks in like it used to. Pulls hard and is fast but doesn't feel like it used to. Maybe its in my head maybe it's not lol. I'm definitely faster. I have a fmf coming so I could do a comparison of the 2 and let you know. This is the first 2 stroke I've ride since I had my kx125 like 13years ago.

Has anyone felt that they can't feel the powerband kicking on for is it in my head? Lol

 

[jus_me]

Well my average riding area is from -300'-2100'+ . I am in a mountainous area so it changes pretty quickly. This is part of the reason I run a Lectron carb<< altitude/temp doesn't affect the jetting.. With the stock carb I just have to play with things a bit and it's always iffy because the temps can change quite a bit also. This is why I always try and be on the safe side(rich) if anything. I plug chop with a B8es but I run B8evs plugs and have yet to foul one. << they are a bit more pricey but haven't fouled not 1.


@theresnoname4me , Your porting will affect the power band hit. More specifically the exhaust port and shape. With the pipe you have it will be more mellow/evenly through the rpm range but stronger. With an Fmf or other pipe it will pull even harder and you should feel more of a "hit" (more towards the top end) but more importantly more power threw ought the whole rpm range.

 

[theresnoname4me]

Thanks for clearing that up for me eta on the fmf is the 27th so I'll find out then lol.

 

[deeeebeeeeee]

Thanks for clearing that up for me eta on the fmf is the 27th so I'll find out then lol.

Keep me posted.

I finally got out to Houston Valley OHV trails. http://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/conf/recarea/?recid=10468 and rode for a few hours, definitely nice to let it stretch it's legs a bit, without a tach, I can only be subjective power comes on around mid low mid (if that's a word, and builds fairly strong till upper mid , where it flattens a little but continues to pull decently until it's wound tight.
Funny thing is in the higher gears, once it gets wound up and starts to level out it almost feels like it's done, but feed any unused throttle and or flutter the clutch and you realize it's still pulling, not especially powerful but pulling steady.
When nearing the end of a straight or top of a climb I found myself pushing the current gear on through as opposed to shifting.

There weren't that many fast sections where I was able to easily run thru 5th and 6th without the burden of clamping down on those cable brakes in the front. But i did want more power when running above fourth.

I did notice that once I topped out 5th, it seemed the rpm didn't drop much going to 6th. Not sure iF the clutch was slipping either from being weak or maybe hot.

As long as I continue with the current engine setup, higher gearing, thru 22 inch tires and possibly a 14/41 setup, would be the way to go.
That way 1st thru 4th would make more speed and better use of the strongest upper mid band, while 4th thru 6th would be for open runs longer straights etc.
18 inch tires and stock cogs are just way to low geared for a motor that makes its power in the middle. Even on tight trails I constantly fouND myself needing to shift in the middle of a high berm, near the top of the steep of a jump etc. The gearing just doesn't match, the motor.
I didn't set this bike up but I can see why alot of people with a DG pipe , but gearing, tires, and everything else setup to mirror a MX bike would be quite unhappy.

Sorry to ramble, long story short, being as how I need tires anyway, and chain and cogs by spring. Other than just making sure I am leak free and stay safely jetted. I am going to go with bigger tires, see what happens then tweak the gearing, and see what happens. I still need a better reed setup, and a HD clutch, before I rebuild with a mild port job, then I have to consider better brakes........ needless to say a better pipe will probably get pushed back for a while. But being a little guy 5'9" 130lbs. I will most likely stick with the blaster as long as parts can be found.

Thanks for the ear
Db

 

[theresnoname4me]

New pipe came and WOW what a difference. 2nd gear power wheelies with ease. Lol. Havent really got on it. Getting late don't need anyone calling the cops or just upset my neighbors. 100 bucks well spent. Fmf fatty and silencer.

 

[pudvah]

So much better than the DG right ?

 

[rich1]

New pipe came and WOW what a difference. 2nd gear power wheelies with ease. Lol. Havent really got on it. Getting late don't need anyone calling the cops or just upset my neighbors. 100 bucks well spent. Fmf fatty and silencer.

Most all of FMF products are a good buy. A pipe needs to fit each persons style and place where they ride to get the most out of it. Racing on a long fast track the B1 will run away from the FMF fatty on a slower tighter track the reverse will happen. Gearing correctly is a must, along with strong brakes ,since a 2 stroke does not give hardly any off throttle braking.

 

[deeeebeeeeee]

Looks like I might need to upgrade pipes before rebuild, I still got to get tires, the clutch lined out, and brakes taken care of. Before more power will help much. I have front shoes in the mail as I can manage the extra lever pressure needed to lock the front wheels.
I am I the process of addressing the clutch, and rear brakes as well. Tires will have to wait on money to build in the hobby account.

The DG pipe does hit mid to high but the power really isn't that concentrated, alot of potential is wasted keeping a wide band.
It really is almost like a cammed 4 stroke. I didnt realize it till I heard a yz125 crack it open going up a nearby hill.
Anyhow I got $150 in brakes, $50 for a clutch kit, and $200 in tires minimum to spend before power becomes a priorty, good news is when you count the $100 I already spent it add up to more than I paid for the quad to start with.
I am still hoping to find an inexpensive piece for the rear cable brakes as I already went to the trouble of cleaning up the entire assembly and getting pads, before I realized a piece was missing. That would save me alot of money at the moment.
And possibly allow me to get another pipe while I still got good compression.

Keep it Zing in
Db

 

[theresnoname4me]

So much better lol

So much better than the DG right ?

 

[Blaaster]

DG stands for Don't Go.

 

[theresnoname4me]

Never understood why no one likes dg until I got my fatty. NOW I get it lol

 

[jus_me]

The porting makes a big difference also .. All in all,, they all work hand in hand with each other.

 

[deeeebeeeeee]

Sweet i been digging a little deeper and it seems like the pro circuit might be more up my alley, similar to a fmf in the middle with more on top and less on bottom. I have always been a little more hi th strung anyhow.