Ball joint stress

[Larry's Shee]

First off, all trolls are welcome I:I I have VERY THICK SKIN 8-|

Ok, at some point ball joints are maxed out at full drop of a arms. Shocks are set up to stop arms from over extending, as I presume there is a bumper of sorts inside the shock. From over extended, how much would you let the frame settle/arms relax to set shock posistion? Would you say drop frame XXX amount, relax arms XXX degrees?

Just kinda thinking out loud. Seriously thinking of a YFZ arm conversion like Blaner did, but start out with + + arms, like he ended up with. Really leaning towards LT arms. This is where I needs thoughts on a arm drop. As I might not be using YFZ shocks, I need to design something in my head for upper shock mounts. Also not afraid of moving lower shock mount.

 

[Blaaster]

Larry, why not make something like the Diamond lowering kit, it allows 3 positions of either lowering or raising.

 

[Larry's Shee]

Actually was thinking along simular lines, along with looking at how Blaner set it up, plus looking at YZ Otis wacky shock thread .

I do know that optimum angle for shocks is about 35*, less for stiffer, more for softer.

So what are your thoughts about B J stress?

 

[Blaner]

Once you factor in all the variables, (there a lot) you might find that the extension limit of the shocks/a arms is a function of ride height. Ride height in my opinion should be more important than extension points. So i think it would be best to base the shock mount position on the required ride height.

I did this by using a jack under the front end and setting up the bike to the height I wanted based on observations of the 450. I also factored in the distance between mount points, namely the upper shock mounts and lower shock mount points.

The upper points were easy because I simply measured between the holes on the frame of the 450, the bottom I measures between the a-arm bolts on the stock 450, by doing that,i eliminated the variance in measurement that comes with arm travel and position. This would only really work with stock 450 kit because the shock mount points on aftermarket arms will be different. I then worked out the ratio and applied that to the blaster,

So in essence I kept the ratio between the upper shock mounts and the lower arm mounts the same and then played with the ride height untill I found the measurement I was looking for, as it turned out, my both the ride height and the shock angle were what I wanted and the same as the 450.

 

[Blaner]

Its all rather confusing but im sure you will get the hang of what you need to do once you actually get there. You just need to be patient and think extensively about each step before you cut or weld. Everything influences the next in the world of suspensions...

Something else to consider that may govern travel is the spindle as well as upper shock compression limits....


It may be worthwhile to take the spring off your shock and do a maximum and minimum extension tests...something like this: http://www.blasterforum.com/suspension-14/rear-suspension-geometry-new-swingarm-44893/#post560668

 

[Larry's Shee]

I wish I had as much money as time I get too many ideas rattling around my head like a BB in a box car. I'm really leaning towards +2 or even +3 arms right from the start.

The idea of the YFZ arms is appealing because you get extended arms, way better shocks, longer travel, and the bonus of disc brakes. I've seen arms, spindles, hubs/rotors for less than new arms would cost for a Blaster and you'd still have drum brakes.

As to shocks been thinking along these lines:2007 Polaris Outlaw 525 IRS Ryde FX Pro Series Front Shocks | eBay about 18" E T E. And rear:Polaris Predator 500 Rear Shock Fox Podium Clicker Absorber 03 04 05 06 07 | eBay as I'm going extended swing arm.

Then I see this: specialblend07 frame build - - Images - Banshee HQ Forums get the pivots as close as possible and add some rake to it, like a TRX 250r. Extended 2-3 inches also. I wouldn't do single top tube though. Just kinda cut/bend/rework top tubes.

You know it's been 2 years since you posted your DIY and to the best of my knowledge no one has done it X(. Closest I found was someone trying some kind of bolt-on BS like a diamond J.

I see what you're saying as to ride height etc. And basic common sense on the joint stress.

 

[Larry's Shee]

Ya, read your thead, Phragles, YZ Otis, and manually searched as not knowing what search terms to use. That was my thought also as to "test driving" suspension travel (shocks no springs) front wouldn"t be much different than back.

Even studied pics of Phragles Blastersarius. That was purely by accident lol.

 

[Blaner]

Ya larry, i agree fully with getting the pivot points as close as possible, that would in essence optimize suspension travel, that exactly the reason i dont like the diamond J widening kits.

I however did go to the extent of chopping up my frame structure. it may be the better option tho as this would allow for extra long travel arms. remember that you will have to use long arms or else your track in the front will be reduced

 

[Larry's Shee]

You ought to check out how close the pivots are on Yfz450r/x.
Then you have something like this:My sundahl Banshee - Suspension - Banshee HQ Forums Dean Sundahl - Banshee Repairs and Mods - Banshee HQ Forums Sundahl Atv racing frame