Wossner piston question

LOL I run a wossner piston in my BBK and when it came out for a midlife overhaul (changed out cases) it had some light scuffing and tiny scratches on it (nothing out of the ordinary though). I run it at .003" clearance on klotz 32:1.

I never let my engine warm up any longer than it takes to come off the choke, just sayin'
 
I have a lad that is always in a hurry to rip, he struggles to wait the time it takes to warm up.

I am aware that he is going to grab the throttle long before the motor is warm.

To help combat this problem I have his motor jetted at the richest setting before too much loss of power and run a ratio of 25:1 bean oil.

So far so good.
 
Dont apologise Blaaster, I'm asking for help. I'll answer any question the best I can. Joeak47 is also making me think. I cant richen up the engine any more. It' as rich as I can get it and still run clean. Changed jets and needle hight to eliminate a lean condition. I guess I might have took off once without heating it up for along time but I have tryed to cover all my bases and make sure I have her fully warmed up before riding.
 
Alright Hotrod, I have to apologize in advance because I'm not trying to say this to make you feel bad. Exactly the opposite.... trying to put your mind at ease that you aren't doing anything wrong.

I run a wossner....

I heat cycled my engine with 3 ten minute idle periods with NO throttle blips at all, just sitting there idling.

I retorqued the nuts and broke the motor in the "motoman way". Stone cold, warm up until it came off choke and tore the hell out at WOT.

I have had that engine so hot it was spark knocking drag racing down at Busco Beach several times.

I have run that engine over 200 psi of cranking compression while doing head mod experiments.

I have ~100 hours on that piston without a ring change.

I run my mix at 32:1 Klotz supertechniplate and I run my jetting just a little on the fat side.

All I have to show for all of the stupid stuff I have done is ever so light scuffing on my piston (not an abnormal amount). In summation, I have done simply everything "against the rules" you could possibly do and have nothing but normal wear and tear on my piston. I HIGHLY doubt that it's anything you are doing as far as warmup/breakin.
 
joeak47 said:
Remember that the forging process compresses the aluminum into a smaller area,leaving the molecules smashed closer together. When they get excited (heated up) they want to expand a much larger amount compared to a comparable cast component.

When I say warm up before riding I don't mean to let it just sit there and idle, I mean to start your bike,get your gear on,get on your bike and blip the throttle quite a few times to bring up the cylinder tempurature.
Now put your un-gloved hand on the cylinder and FEEL. Make sure it gets "too hot to touch",put your glove back on,then go ride. A luke warm cylinder with a forged piston is asking for trouble.
Click to expand...

I have been there! :-[ so True!

I bought an infrared gun and it takes me 5-7 minutes depends on outside temp of blipping to be up to operating temp my temp is 190 then the head is hot to touch-, The biggest mistake most people make with forged IMO- is the cool down process in between the cycles, I let it completely cool down under 80* usually, Then start another period, I use my infrared gun to check temps, I check at the head, (sparkplug base) , cylinder in two spots , where it meets the head and two fins down, It drops considerably from the top to middle of cylinder. And also been doing the toomey pipe. Hottest i was able to get the blasty motor after a good two hour pounding was 287 at the sparkplug base, 253 top of cylinder where head meets, and two fins down was 218. Toomey pipe behind flange-278 toomey infront of motor at fat part was 175.
 
I saw someone ran a Wossner piston on this forum but could'nt remember. It's Sivicdude. I'm not sure if what u said makes me feel better or worse. Lol. I have been so anal about following proper procedure from assembly to riding that i'm out of ideas to make this thing live longer. I was starting to blame Wossner but your having good luck with them. I gotta figure this out. I cant keep putting pistons and sleeves in this thing.
 
Here are a few tempuratures in an air cooled engines...

Yamaha's ever so popular two stroke "air cooled" KT-100 kart racing engines run cylinder head tempuratures in the 380 to 500 + degee range! These engines are also ran in the 15,000 RPM range!

[The four stroke clone engine (chinese copy of the honda GX200) kart racers are running in the 375 to 450 degree range,and they have valves and springs to worry about!
 
hotrodaj_2 said:
I saw someone ran a Wossner piston on this forum but could'nt remember. It's Sivicdude. I'm not sure if what u said makes me feel better or worse. Lol. I have been so anal about following proper procedure from assembly to riding that i'm out of ideas to make this thing live longer. I was starting to blame Wossner but your having good luck with them. I gotta figure this out. I cant keep putting pistons and sleeves in this thing.
Click to expand...

The point of my post was to set your mind at ease about the piston and your procedures. I have had excellent luck out of this piston. Two years running now so I don't *think* that's your problem.

What piston to cylinder clearance are you running, by the way?
 
hotrodaj_2 said:
I saw someone ran a Wossner piston on this forum but could'nt remember. It's Sivicdude. I'm not sure if what u said makes me feel better or worse. Lol. I have been so anal about following proper procedure from assembly to riding that i'm out of ideas to make this thing live longer. I was starting to blame Wossner but your having good luck with them. I gotta figure this out. I cant keep putting pistons and sleeves in this thing.
Click to expand...

Well my son and I fried three topends three different ways. No warm up, too much warm up, too lean condition from airleak- I vowed I will not rebuild for the next few years at least not this current motor!

I too was meticulous, anal. But Until I got this infrared gun for $20, and started checking things even while riding, that helped me understand how my motor is running. I can Jet my quad using a infrared gun and be just about right on when i plug chop ( which i say in completely necessary for every motor)!

Not saying checking the temp of the motor will make all your issues go away, But You will be able to actually see how hot you are running. This helped me understand how and why heat cycles work.
 
Plug chops are usually done at WOT, with not much attention being paid to what the AFR is at 1/2 to 3/4 running.

Some pipes require a richer setting on the needle.
 
sicivicdude said:
The point of my post was to set your mind at ease about the piston and your procedures. I have had excellent luck out of this piston. Two years running now so I don't *think* that's your problem.

What piston to cylinder clearance are you running, by the way?
Click to expand...

I cant' remember the clearence rightnow. I got pissed and ran out of play money when It messed up the last time so I parked it. It's been to long now. I do know that it was machined exactly what Wossner said. Now we opened it up another .001 to try and fix problem. But I know that is like shooting in the dark. We're just trying to get it to live.
 
slickerthanyou said:
Well my son and I fried three topends three different ways. No warm up, too much warm up, too lean condition from airleak- I vowed I will not rebuild for the next few years at least not this current motor!

I too was meticulous, anal. But Until I got this infrared gun for $20, and started checking things even while riding, that helped me understand how my motor is running. I can Jet my quad using a infrared gun and be just about right on when i plug chop ( which i say in completely necessary for every motor)!

Not saying checking the temp of the motor will make all your issues go away, But You will be able to actually see how hot you are running. This helped me understand how and why heat cycles work.
Click to expand...

I'm getting a rpm/head temp system off a snowmobile, gonna have temps next time I ride. Snowmobile has three cylinders but you can set system to one cylinder only and Im gonna run it like that. Should work.
 
I distinctly remember that thread and I got a blaster off CL about a month later that had one on it. The slightly later models had "gnarly" stamped on them like the "fatty" or "gold". The early ones do not have anything stamped on them but "FMF".

It's a narrow head pipe that makes the turn to the right side before it begins to converge. The convergent section has a sharp turn down made into it (unlike most pipes that have the convergent section without any bends).

They're not bad pipes but don't have a high powerband and are kind of restrictive as I recall. They're more for "torque" according to FMF.
 
Alright, we've covered the "normal" problems that it could be. Let's delve into the really unlikely/strange.

It is completely possible that you have an airleak that only shows up during operation.

Were the cases lapped smooth before assembly?

OEM base gasket installed?

Have you ever lost, even a little bit, any transmission fluid?

What's the history of this crankshaft? Is it possible that it's not in spec for run out?
 
sicivicdude said:
I distinctly remember that thread and I got a blaster off CL about a month later that had one on it. The slightly later models had "gnarly" stamped on them like the "fatty" or "gold". The early ones do not have anything stamped on them but "FMF".

It's a narrow head pipe that makes the turn to the right side before it begins to converge. The convergent section has a sharp turn down made into it (unlike most pipes that have the convergent section without any bends).

They're not bad pipes but don't have a high powerband and are kind of restrictive as I recall. They're more for "torque" according to FMF.
Click to expand...

Do you think that pipe could cause a increase in piston temp? I'm still searching for something that could cause the 4 corner seize scratches. I got some good ideas from all you guys. Maybe I gotta change my break-in and pre ride procedures. It sucks to have a dozen different ways to do all that from what I've read. If I baby it anymore in those areas I'm gonna end up not starting it at all. Lol
 
That pipe will lead to a increased crown temperature because it's restrictive but it shouldn't be an excessive amount, no more than any other mid pipe out there.....

I don't think it's the pre-ride or break-in procedures.... you sound like you are babying it plenty.
 
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