Hybrid ideas?

[blasterkiidirl]

I'm thinking of getting a 450 frame for next year and racing it in the youth class i can us any engine as long as its 250cc air cooled four stroke or up to 200 2 stroke. The 2 stroke and be liquid looked, The only good 2 strokes is a ktm 200 or a dt/wr 200 and all are hard to come by and VERY pricey. So any engine you can think of that would be powerful, relieable and sorta cheep would be a big, thanks.

 

[scotj77]

yfs200 .............

 

[Blaaster]

/\ /\ /\ with liquid cooled head, way to go.

From holeshot to finish line they will eat your dust, maybe more than once.

 

[dksix]

The only other 200cc 2 stroke I can think of that would be easy to come by it the KDX engine but I think you could make just as much power with the Blaster engine. The KDX engines are even close to the KTM 200 engine. Something you might consider if is taking a 250cc down to 200cc. It used to be somewhat common in the old days. I still have a vintage Tecate 200cc debore piston kit and ATC200R's where beast (ATC250R taken down to 200cc).

 

[blasterkiidirl]

The only other 200cc 2 stroke I can think of that would be easy to come by it the KDX engine but I think you could make just as much power with the Blaster engine. The KDX engines are even close to the KTM 200 engine. Something you might consider if is taking a 250cc down to 200cc. It used to be somewhat common in the old days. I still have a vintage Tecate 200cc debore piston kit and ATC200R's where beast (ATC250R taken down to 200cc).

I thought of that alright but where could i get a debore pistons for lets say a yz 250 can they be got off the shelf now-a-days?

 

[dksix]

yfs200 .............

I would agree, if you have to stay under 200cc, the Blaster engine could probably make near the power of any 200cc engine. Blaster engines can get near 40hp, that should be competitive within the displacement you're talking about.

 

[blasterkiidirl]

I would agree, if you have to stay under 200cc, the Blaster engine could probably make near the power of any 200cc engine. Blaster engines can get near 40hp, that should be competitive within the displacement you're talking about.

mine was 28 on the dyno but the cylender went i find it had to belive you can get 40 out of a 200 blaster. i saw a 42 hp blaster with a 240 kit and a stroker on this forum.

 

[blasterkiidirl]

A dt200 as far as i know has 32 hp stock?

 

[best]

Having driven most all these engines in bikes, I can tell you the KTM 200 is clearly the strongest by a long measure.
The KDX220 is not even up to par with a KTM 125 in stock form, but good mid-range. gearbox is a bit wide 1st-2nd.
The DT200 more of a screamer than the KDX but still less than the KTM 125. Very little mid range even with the powervalve.
Stock DT gearbox has 1st too low and 6th too high, the Blaster gearbox is better.

I am running a KTM 250 and biggest problem I have is the narrow 5 spread gearbox spread. Power is ample.
I sized a KTM 125 (same case as the 200) to fit and it fits in a Blaster chassis with room to spare, much better than my 2003 250.
The KTM200 comes in 6 speed gearbox in close and wide ratios. I prefer the wide ratio but for MX work the close may be better.
For what it would cost to sleeve down any MX engine you could buy a good KTM200.
Any year from mid-1990s to present would do. Hydraulic clutch came about 1999 and power and mid-range torque increased very slightly into the mid 2000s.
Most of the power increase was head and cylinder which are readily interchangeable.
All year KTM200 are good. Can be bought for $400-$1200 and used pretty much without any needed engine modification.

Steve

 

[Chuckie25]

The best 2t engine you could ever want (or handle) would be a 175. If you can just stay on it and keep it in the RPM's you'll dust anything you want. The thing that you would want is a 200R engine. It is a 250R destroked with the cylinder cut down a little. They are mean as HELL. You will not find anything else close to them. Maico, I believe, has a 200/sub-200cc but you wouldn't: A) Be able to handle it and B) Be able to afford it if you can't afford to get a KTM engine lol.

Get with MHR about getting a 200R engine done. His blaster engines will run with 250R's and be reliable as hell do imagine what he can do with an already race proven many many time over 200/250R.


Also, if you could get your hands on a Cagiva 200 engine you'd be set. They are really 119cc but ran with the 250's no problem.

Lots of options, don't always have to be something new ya know






Side note: I have a DT250 engine out of a DT1 that I may be will to part with. You can get small sleeves for them as easily as you can pistons

 

[scotj77]

A dt200 as far as i know has 32 hp stock?

yes but from what I have read the dt motor doesn't have much room for porting. which leaves you with less room for impovement, like on the blaster motor. sounds like it is a blaster motor or a ton of money on a motor modified to run in the 200cc class

 

[blasterkiidirl]

Having driven most all these engines in bikes, I can tell you the KTM 200 is clearly the strongest by a long measure.
The KDX220 is not even up to par with a KTM 125 in stock form, but good mid-range. gearbox is a bit wide 1st-2nd.
The DT200 more of a screamer than the KDX but still less than the KTM 125. Very little mid range even with the powervalve.
Stock DT gearbox has 1st too low and 6th too high, the Blaster gearbox is better.

I am running a KTM 250 and biggest problem I have is the narrow 5 spread gearbox spread. Power is ample.
I sized a KTM 125 (same case as the 200) to fit and it fits in a Blaster chassis with room to spare, much better than my 2003 250.
The KTM200 comes in 6 speed gearbox in close and wide ratios. I prefer the wide ratio but for MX work the close may be better.
For what it would cost to sleeve down any MX engine you could buy a good KTM200.
Any year from mid-1990s to present would do. Hydraulic clutch came about 1999 and power and mid-range torque increased very slightly into the mid 2000s.
Most of the power increase was head and cylinder which are readily interchangeable.
All year KTM200 are good. Can be bought for $400-$1200 and used pretty much without any needed engine modification.

Steve

There a few 200 ktm's (both sx and exc) for sale over here and there quite cheep i guess the sx have the shorter gear ratio and the exc the longer ratio?
How reliable are they and how often do they need top and bottom end rebuilds?

 

[blasterkiidirl]

yes but from what I have read the dt motor doesn't have much room for porting. which leaves you with less room for impovement, like on the blaster motor. sounds like it is a blaster motor or a ton of money on a motor modified to run in the 200cc class

The hole idea of building a hybrid is because its bigger and faster then a blaster, see my dad won't let me move up the the adult class and I'm growing out of he blaster but he has no problem in me racing a hybrid and if i get a 450 with a blown engine for more or less €1,000 and a bike for about the same my two blaster should fund the most part of the build and there a guy that does shocks at a good price so I should have a sick quad for not that much money.

 

[slickerthanyou]

One thing came to mind, Your gonna put a heavier frame quad with a 200cc motor, just because it is bigger? Nothing wrong with hybrids IMO, however you have two blasters, You could do a long rod on stock crank, and have it ported for your racing, with nice matched porting, head work, pipe, carb combo- you could be sitting pretty with a blaster beast of 30ish HP and less weight! Then it's up to your skills after that!

 

[best]

mine was 28 on the dyno but the cylender went i find it had to belive you can get 40 out of a 200 blaster. i saw a 42 hp blaster with a 240 kit and a stroker on this forum.

Can you tell us exactly what mods you had done for 28hp?
Maybe even fill in the blanks here:
Cylinder head rechambered?
To what shape?
CC?
%quench/squish area in head?
Squish gap?
Piston type? Modifications?
Exhaust port modifications?
Intake modifications?
Carb?
Airbox/filter mods?
Pipe/silencer?

For you this may be giving away some secrets but I assure you some of us can give you hints for more performance.

My son has done the DT200 conversion, although without the powervalve functioning.
It is a ripping machine, but still no equal in stock form with the KTM.
The DT200 cylinder is almost identical to the Blaster cylinder with the exception of the powervalve (and head).
It has pretty much the same room for all the same porting tricks. No weight advantage over aircooled.

A stock KTM 200 engine will produce as much HP (over 40) as any modified motor and gives wonderful reliability.
A stock KTM200 motor will cost you less than any modified, sleeved or destroked motor, with possible exception of the Blaster or DT200.
Modifications are still possible on the KTM engine, and are widely available over the internet.
It has a fully adjustable powervalve to adjust the powerband hit from smooth to harsh.

Personally, I like the idea of using a 450 frame with their great suspension setup with a lightweight motor.
Very little chassis work to do, and you would lose at least 20-30 lbs with a KTM200 motor.

I have been riding since 1976, KTMs since 2000. I still have my 2000 KTM 125, which is the same case size as the 200.
My 2000KTM125 went 5-7 years of hard riding before I dunked it in a river and needed a new piston.
Very durable. They are tough, tough, tough.
Parts costs maybe slightly more than a Japanese, durability usually much better.
The SX transmission may be better for racing, but I personally like the very wide gear spread on the EXC transmission.

Slick makes a good point. If you have a Blaster already set up, lengthening the swingarm and steering stem 2-3" each would make it fit better for less money than a whole new frame. The KTM 200 motor can go in without welding to the frame actually, just adaptor mounts to the Blaster engine mount points. A new set of longer and forward "A" arms would complete the transformation to a less than 300 lbs (my 250 weighs less than 300 dry) full sized quad. A swingarm, rad mounted and a pipe modified to fit are your largest challenges.

Pipe and rad fit (200 is smaller than this 250):

Blaster stock, modified, and KTM cylinderheads:

 

[slickerthanyou]

Listen to these guys! ^^^^^^ much more experience than I have!

If you have a Blaster already set up, lengthening the swingarm and steering stem 2-3" each would make it fit better for less money than a whole new frame. The KTM 200 motor can go in without welding to the frame actually, just adaptor mounts to the Blaster engine mount points. A new set of longer and forward "A" arms would complete the transformation to a less than 300 lbs (my 250 weighs less than 300 dry) full sized quad. A swingarm, rad mounted and a pipe modified to fit are your largest challenges.

"Best" idea yet! I like it!

 

[blasterkiidirl]

Well the year after i will be deffo moving up to the adult for the year after so to have a hybrid would be a stepping stone and my dad is convinced that moving form a blaster to a 450 is a bad idea and he has a good point there.

 

[blasterkiidirl]

Can you tell us exactly what mods you had done for 28hp?
Maybe even fill in the blanks here:
Cylinder head rechambered?
To what shape?
CC?
%quench/squish area in head?
Squish gap?
Piston type? Modifications?
Exhaust port modifications?
Intake modifications?
Carb?
Airbox/filter mods?
Pipe/silencer?

For you this may be giving away some secrets but I assure you some of us can give you hints for more performance.

My son has done the DT200 conversion, although without the powervalve functioning.
It is a ripping machine, but still no equal in stock form with the KTM.
The DT200 cylinder is almost identical to the Blaster cylinder with the exception of the powervalve (and head).
It has pretty much the same room for all the same porting tricks. No weight advantage over aircooled.

A stock KTM 200 engine will produce as much HP (over 40) as any modified motor and gives wonderful reliability.
A stock KTM200 motor will cost you less than any modified, sleeved or destroked motor, with possible exception of the Blaster or DT200.
Modifications are still possible on the KTM engine, and are widely available over the internet.
It has a fully adjustable powervalve to adjust the powerband hit from smooth to harsh.

Personally, I like the idea of using a 450 frame with their great suspension setup with a lightweight motor.
Very little chassis work to do, and you would lose at least 20-30 lbs with a KTM200 motor.

I have been riding since 1976, KTMs since 2000. I still have my 2000 KTM 125, which is the same case size as the 200.
My 2000KTM125 went 5-7 years of hard riding before I dunked it in a river and needed a new piston.
Very durable. They are tough, tough, tough.
Parts costs maybe slightly more than a Japanese, durability usually much better.
The SX transmission may be better for racing, but I personally like the very wide gear spread on the EXC transmission.

Slick makes a good point. If you have a Blaster already set up, lengthening the swingarm and steering stem 2-3" each would make it fit better for less money than a whole new frame. The KTM 200 motor can go in without welding to the frame actually, just adaptor mounts to the Blaster engine mount points. A new set of longer and forward "A" arms would complete the transformation to a less than 300 lbs (my 250 weighs less than 300 dry) full sized quad. A swingarm, rad mounted and a pipe modified to fit are your largest challenges.

Pipe and rad fit (200 is smaller than this 250):

Blaster stock, modified, and KTM cylinderheads:

What gear box do you think would best suit me the sx or xc for racing because i dont just do mx i do eduro and grass track and maybe supermoto at some stage. I would be looking for a top speed close enough to a 450. Thanks for all the info your giving really helpful man

 

[Triplecrown421]

What gear box do you think would best suit me the sx or xc for racing because i dont just do mx i do eduro and grass track and maybe supermoto at some stage. I would be looking for a top speed close enough to a 450. Thanks for all the info your giving really helpful man

i would think the sx trans would be better all around for a quad. i know best mentioned he wasnt sure if he liked his narrow gearbox but hes using a sx250 motor, much more grunt then the 125 or 200. to keep in the lead with a 2 stroke u need to stay in the band, narrow gears will aid that. anything over 110kph imo is enought for topped out speed.

I have been riding since 1976, KTMs since 2000. I still have my 2000 KTM 125, which is the same case size as the 200.
My 2000KTM125 went 5-7 years of hard riding before I dunked it in a river and needed a new piston.
Very durable. They are tough, tough, tough.
(QUOTE]

Best is not kidding that 2000 ktm 125 went 5-7 years without opening the motor once.....i dono the hours of use but were talkin many hours, many many many hours. like i owned a 1996 yz 125 which was rebuilt over 5 times in the time that the ktm was ran and not touched, same hours on each machine.....i may have been more harsh on mine:-[ but no ktm is where its at, very tough 2 strokes. it is what it is.

 

[best]

What gear box do you think would best suit me the sx or xc for racing because i dont just do mx i do eduro and grass track and maybe supermoto at some stage. I would be looking for a top speed close enough to a 450. Thanks for all the info your giving really helpful man

The 125/200 KTMs actually have a wider gear spread than the 250/300/360/380 KTMs, so they have higher top speeds if everything else is equal. The 125 bike below is a 130-140kph top speed machine even on hills and gravel, so no problem achieving the speeds you want with a 200. I do believe the SX and XC gearboxes are the same narrow ratios. The EXC and XCW are the wide ratios. On long high speed tracks the EXC/XCW transmission would be better, on short tracks limited to 100kph the SX/XC transmission would be fine.

Hey, I am trying to answer your questions, can you share what mods you had done?
Did you get your cylinder head rechambered?
Did you set your Squish (piston to head) gap?
Any Exhaust port or Intake modifications?
Stock Carb? Any airbox/filter mods?
What Pipe/silencer are you running?

Steve

This is my 300, more power but less top speed than the 125/200. Compare engine size.
Taller, longer, heavier than the 125/200, and a larger pipe.