someone please chime in here

[636chris]

whats up guys . im a noobie to the forums but not to the dirtbike/quad/street bike scene.

i was wondering if someone could please explain how a widening kit could possibly cause more bump steer that aftermarket extended a arms ? i know the tie rod extensions seem to be a weak point over extended tie rods(if thats the word(s) for them) but other than that im not seeing any possible problems in conjunction with bumpsteer using a widening kit vs a arms , as the widening kit doesnt put the wheel further from the hub . it keeps it the same distance as it was stock. basically is there any thing im missing here? +3+1 a arms use extended a arms rather than using the existing factory a arm mounts and moving them away from the frame using stock components .

sorry if this doesnt make much sense or maybe it does?

but wouldnt the effect be the same ?

i already read the reviews on the diamond j widening kit vs a arms but im wondering if someone could answer these questions.

thanks in advance and merry christmas

 

[Surfrjag]

If by widening kit u mean a plate that moves your arms out from the mounting point I don't believe it will cause bump steer but if you use wheel spacers (sometimes called widening kit) it will cause some bump steer as you know from moving the wheel away from the tierod mount Chime

 

[YZ Otis]

This is how I think about it and I might be wrong ... burp ...Your steering stem is on the centerline of the quad. The swing arms mount/pivot at a point a few inches off the center line. As the spindle/wheel travels in the arc from bottom of travel to top of travel the distance between the steering stem and the spindle changes. The toe in changes as the suspension travels, usually most pronounced at full compression. Ideally the a-arms would pivot from the centerline but that's not practical. Think about what happens when you adjust your tie rods a couple of turns. Your tires are out of alignment. When your suspension travels up or down it's like your tie rod gets longer. The farther you move the a-arm mounts away from the center line, like the widening kit does, the more pronounced the toe changes become.
As to the +3 a-arm ... the longer the a-arm length the better, the angles are smaller so the effect is smaller
Oh well, maybe I can't explain it ... LOL

 

[Blaaster]

Bump steer will be more pronounced with a widening kit as described above, but can be lessened to acceptable proportions with an extra 1/8 inch of toe out.

 

[636chris]

Thanks for the fast replies . The widening kit i was questioning would be the Diamond j customs kit. I would really like some +3+1 a arms with a gforce axle but i was debating on getting the $450 widening kit (brackets for front /rear wheel spacers). i ride through alot of different terrains so i dont really want to replace stuff every other time i ride and i was concerned with the bumpsteer .

 

[slickerthanyou]

Great explination otis!!!

I have yet to experience this bump steer, maybe i just go too fast over the rocks or something but I have stud extenders on the front of my sons and cannot tell a difference from stock! I did have to adjust my tie rods out a little but no big deal!

 

[Blaaster]

Bump steer is really only an issue when landing big jumps when the suspension bottoms out.

If you land a little off line, owing to increased tow in, one of the front wheels wants to duck under the bike and literally try to chuck you off.

I run a + 6" Diamond kit with the lowering option on MX with no probs if you toe out just a little more.

The only prob I found with the kit was some bolts supplied were too short.

If money comes into the equasion, it is far better to get wider A arms, as you get the advantage of + 1" forward.

The Diamond kit gives you a cheaper build and gives you the choice of 4 1/2 or 6" wider option.

 

[Surfrjag]

good info i learn something new every day...

 

[636chris]

Bump steer is really only an issue when landing big jumps when the suspension bottoms out.

If you land a little off line, owing to increased tow in, one of the front wheels wants to duck under the bike and literally try to chuck you off.

I run a + 6" Diamond kit with the lowering option on MX with no probs if you toe out just a little more.






about your mx set up. Are you running the stock swinger? i really wanted to keep my blasty short wheelbase front to back as i ride mainly trails but i also will kit a few tracks and alot of jumps. Not to mention who doesnt like wheelies lol. Would not extending the swing arm cause any problems with going +6 all around. im mainly concerned with durability and having the ability to ride alot of different places with out changing much besides shock settings.

Is there any advanages to having the lowering kit as well?

can i have a bit more info on your set up. How is it in the trails?

 

[YZ Otis]

Something to think about ... Some peeps say +4 is not good for trails. Not sure if that view is from experience or imagination. I disagree. On our tight trails the +4 bike is always the fastest. A +3 or +4 arm will help keep the front tires planted when powering out of a corner or climbing steep trails. The more aggressive your rear tires are the more it helps. It makes the bike more comfortable to control. You can still do wheelies, donuts & show off. You'll just have better control.

Here's a long boring vid that will give you an idea of how tight our trails are. The +4 Blaster is easily the quickest, not because it has more power but because it is more comfortable to push it hard. A wide track is a disadvantage on this trail.

 

[Blaaster]

At present am using the stock swinger, but as soon as I can pick up a used one, it will be lengthened to +3.

The longer arm will make it much eaiser to set up jumps as the take off power is more easy to regulate.

The longer arm will allow more control over your attitude in flight, using the pin/brake technique.

Any more than +4 is going to interfere with the take off unless you have power to spare.

 

[636chris]

i think id probably only go +2 on a swinger not sure tho .