PRE MIX ratios/ myth/ facts READ

Discussion in 'Engine' started by 4cfed, May 20, 2009.

  1. AcidRayn

    AcidRayn New Member

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    WOW! first day here, and i find an article like this? WOW!

    being in my 40's, all i ever ran in my 2 strokers was blendzall castor oil.
    ran it at 26:1 in my 87 banshee 440, and ran the same trinity welded crank for 12 years
    before i sold it! and only ever put one set of rings in it!

    i run 927 at 24:1 in the kids lt80

    gotta love the stank of the castor!

    great read, i just copied and pasted it to a file

    thanx
     
  2. sheeblast

    sheeblast New Member

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    surpised the trinity lasted that long, and you must not ride it hard enough to have rings last 12 years.
     
  3. CarGuy420

    CarGuy420 New Member

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  4. super sam

    super sam New Member

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    just oil pump delited my blaster so this is a great help
     
  5. r2palmer

    r2palmer New Member

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    Restoring your Blaster to oil injection is better than premixing. I know you'll find a hundred guys who'll say the oil injector fails and "blows up" the engine; but I've rebuilt four Blasters from basket cases (literally, bare-frames and all parts-in-a-box) and the only one that ever seized a piston afterwards is the one that I DIDN'T restore to factory-oil-pumped but used a 32:1 premix on instead.

    Think about it. Oil injection is RPM-based. Whenever the engine revvs, it's getting fed a good quantity of oil. If you do premix the engine can rev like hell and hardly get any oil: like if you're riding DOWN a real long hill and using your engine to help you keep your speed down (especially since most of our back brakes don't work very well!). If you premix, your high-revving downhill-riding engine will hardly get any oil because you're not pushing the throttle, and oil's only going in at the level of an idling engine.

    I'll argue that most of the people who say "the oil pump failed" actually goofed up in some other way. I've had "reputable" machine shops rebore a cylinder for me (at full price) and when I get it back & inspect it, I find the dang cylinder hole is bored off-center or off-angle. If I put that kind of engine back together it'd be sure to seize a piston; and if I took it back to the shop that did the bore work, you know darn well they'd blame something else for the failure, not themselves.

    I've also seen people pour oil into their Blaster's injection reservoir without even cleaning off the filler cap area. ONE little bit of dirt in that oil and it CAN cause a failure because there's a steel ball bearing (check valve) inside the pump and it can stick when it gets dirt in it... but that's not the pump's fault, it's the operator's fault.

    And I've seen them have less than a quarter tank of oil and then pull a 100-yard wheelie... THAT can cause a bubble to get into the oil line and then it'll lose it's prime and fail. Again: operator failure, not oil pump failure.

    And last, I've talked to people who said they rebuilt their Blaster and it failed soon afterwards because the oil pump failed; and when I asked them how they bled all the air out of the pum system and how they made sure the oil lines were always full of oil (I replace the black plastic with clear plastic tubing so I can see the dark oil at a glance); and they looked at me and said, 'What?" (re: they didn't know they were supposed to bleed the line). Again: operator failure, not oil pump failure.

    Use good oil, keep it squeaky clean, know what the heck you're doing with that injection system before messing with it, and keep the oil topped off with the same brand (don't mix brands) and that oil injector will last as long as you need it and won't fail you. Premix, and you'll starve your engine of oil when you go downhill.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
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  6. 413blaster

    413blaster New Member

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    lot to read for sure but very helpful thanx
     
  7. scotj77

    scotj77 Member

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    probably gonna get reamed pretty good for this post dude. all those reasons you listed for failure of the oil injection are the reasons why we don't run them. what if i roll my quad on the trail and it get's a bubble in the line that airlocks the pump. I am suppose to stop in the middle of the woods and bleed the system. it's just not worth the risk to me. if you wanna run it go ahead but when the plastic gear strips and you fry your top end don't come cryin. and man your post was all over the place back and forth from oil pump stuff to bad bore jobs to whatever i lost intrest.
     
  8. 4cfed

    4cfed Member

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    trx250r lt250r atc250r kxt250r triz 250, banshee, gas gas.. cr rm yz kx ktm mx bikes dont have injection, injection is for lazy ppl that dont wanna mix gas
     
  9. bdirtrider1

    bdirtrider1 New Member

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    hey im new here yea i have too disagree with that guy too i have 2 blasters both 240 stroker kits and have always premixed klotz love the smell lol i took the oil pump off both of them when i bought them mine is an 01 and my wifes is an 03 and have never had any probs at all
     
  10. r2palmer

    r2palmer New Member

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    Ream Away

    Yeah I figure people here will badmouth my post, and make it personal (like the guy who said injection is for lazy people). Most of the premix-likers I've run into have been younger guys (I'm 50, a retired engineer), and nothing personal, but most of them don't seem to understand the dynamics of 2-stroke engines.

    But I'm right, whether anybody here likes it or not. 20 years worth of Yamaha factory engineers sticking to the same system should answer anyone's questions about which way is better. But feel free to argue that you know more than they do. you'll sound pretty stupid doing so, but feel free to anyway, as you have an will.

    Most of the youngers who I've mentioned this to can never remember which engineer told them that premix was better; they just say "everybody says" it is.

    And I've never seen a properly installed injector strip its gears. Gears get stripped by people who do stupid things or who have no clue what they're doing and who shouldn't have their fingers inside an engine to begin with.

    And to the guy who says I'm "lazy" for using an injector: come to my garage and I'll show you how lazy I am. Here's a jug for the 18:1 for my kid's CR125R and the RM80L. There's another one of 24:1 for another kid's scooter. There's another jug for the 32:1 for some of the lawn & garden equipment and the one Blaster that premixes. There's a gallon jug of 40:1 for all the Poulan stuff (chainsaws, leaf blowers, weedeaters). And there's that special 50:1 for that old honda EX350 2-stroke generator. Plus the can of diesel for the big generator; and the big can of gasoline for all the other machines that take regular gas. Yeah, I'm lazy as hell. Just split 3 cords of wood yesterday in the snow. Come be lazy with me ok guy? And while you're at it, stop by the gas station with four ATVs on a trail ride and then pull over that one "special" machine that needs to be treated like a queen and have oil mixed in with it before it can go anyplace.

    "Lazy" if premixing. It lets you take shortcuts and treat your machine like it doesn't need any respect or care. So go ahead, premix you heart out, but don't blame me when you burn out a piston.
     
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  11. 4cfed

    4cfed Member

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    Re: Ream Away

    first off I never made it personal that added oil at higher rpms will change your jetting, more oil = leaner fuel since the oil is thicker in the fuel mix.... my wifes trail boss was oil injected, i beleve the polaris was 50:1 is what the injector ran at, that machine made it 19 years on the original piston and rings.. blew up because the new owner didnt think to check the oil level, to each there own, my original post was mainly posting pre mix myths and facts not a injection vs premix battle
     
  12. J2PUISANT

    J2PUISANT New Member

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    This was probably the best sticky i read. I will apply what i got off of it!!! Thanks
     
  13. alex90

    alex90 New Member

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    50:1 and 40:1 are my favorite mixes for my race bikes, havent found my sweet mix for the blaster yet, im thinkin 45:1 is gunna be the next i try
     
  14. Larry's Shee

    Larry's Shee Active Member

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    This is good reading!! Palmer YOU contradicted yourself !! YOU have a blaster that's pre-mix!! What's up with that? Unless you were engine braking down a mile long hill I doubt it would matter at all ,plus yo're still pulling some fuel in. Plus the engine isn't under power . Also if Yammy engineers are that great , why is there injection on a rz 350 but not on a Banshee?:eek::D
     
  15. Demo4o1

    Demo4o1 Member

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    good info.
     
  16. moppymcjones86

    moppymcjones86 New Member

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    My old Bridgestone 90 motorcycle is 15:1 break in and 20:1 after. says right on manual from 60's lol. More smoke than you could ever imaging.

    I like to run around 40:1 in most modded 2 strokes.
     
  17. fast26

    fast26 New Member

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    hi i have a yamaha blaster 1996 i have bult from ground up and it runs fine except for the spark plug is burnt black and it has oil on it i run 32:1 with unleded gas the oil is yamalube2r and am gona change it to red line i have a vitos 240 big bore vivos 3mm stroker crank and 34mm pj carb with 145 main jet and a v force 3 reed and toomy pipe and silencer i have never re jeted it what would u recomend .
     
  18. Demo4o1

    Demo4o1 Member

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    Means u r too rich and with EVERY MOD u should always rejet. Go down some jet sizes. Do plug chops til ur plug is a chocolate brown. There's DIY on how to do them
     
  19. michigan_rider

    michigan_rider New Member

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    i run 32:1 if not richer, i use amsoil hp injector, i blew up my old blaster running cheap stuff. stick to something good. you get what you pay for belray, klotz, lucas oils, and yamalube are great 2-stroke oils dont run speedway oil or something cheap.
     
  20. magicinmywords

    magicinmywords New Member

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    I have an 89 Blaster. I don't really know that much about them, but I know some. What oil do I need to use in the transmission? I think it should be transmission fluid, since it is the transmission. But, I'm not sure, cause it says oil by the twist in cap. And I was gonna ask, how can I fix my air filter boxes rubber end? The very end of it is torn off, and I can't get the carb up into what's left. Thanks again
     

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