Clutch help ASAP!!!

Discussion in 'General Support' started by Nick Migues, Aug 29, 2021.

  1. Nick Migues

    Nick Migues Member

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    Hey everyone. I recently rebuilt 2 blasters- one to upgrade and one to fix an air leak in the case. The first one I changed it out all new wiseco clutches and basket. 2nd one is all stock, didn’t change anything other transmission related, and it was all working properly. On both I left out the ball bearing at first not realizing it was in there for the rod, and I thought that was my issue on both bikes as to why the clutch wouldn’t work. But even with the ball bearings in them the clutch will not work on either bike. I seem to be having the exact same issue on both. I tried adjusting the rods and when the arrows are close/pointing to each other, the clutch rod basically becomes impossible to move forward from that point. On the bike with all new clutches the rod on the pressure plate ends up so far in that there’s hardly any thread left to put the nut back on, and the clutch still doesn’t work when it’s properly adjusted (as far as I can tell). No matter what I seem to do I can’t find a spot where the clutch actually does anything and it makes 0 sense to me, especially on the bike that I did not change anything on. Please help ASAP with any advice/info as I’m trying to take them both riding tomorrow for my little brothers birthday. Thanks as always
     
  2. Nick Migues

    Nick Migues Member

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    Update, I noticed on the blaster with all the new parts the shaft the clutch basket moves in and out which seems to prevent the clutch from working properly, even moves in and out without the basket on. The older one we can seem to get it close but the bolts don’t seem tight enough (I don’t have anything that reads down to 4 ft pounds) and when you first try to roll it with the clutch engaged in gear it isn’t loose at first until you get rolling but I would think which actual engine speed it would probably over come this. Thoughts?
     
  3. Nick Migues

    Nick Migues Member

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    Now no matter how far I put the adjustment rod for the clutch rod in the clutch does nothing.. frustrating!!
     
  4. Awk08

    Awk08 Administrator Staff Member Technician

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    Did you align the dots on pressure plate and basket ?

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Nick Migues

    Nick Migues Member

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    Yes the dots have been aligned
     
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  6. Awk08

    Awk08 Administrator Staff Member Technician

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    Do not over tighten the pressure plate screws, they will snap in the basket, light hand tight is good enough, 4 ft. lbs. isn't much at all, and tightening further does nothing but break screws.

    was it ran without the balls installed between the rods ?
    this could have worn the rods and nothing but a new rod will solve the issue.
    did you reuse the stock balls ? they must be the exact size ball, not something from ace hardware.

    When you put the rods in, was the actuator where the cable connects as far back as it could go ?
    this and the aligning of the 2 pointers is best done with the cable disconnected from the actuator
    it is possible the actuator was too far forward and the rod isn't riding on the flat spot that pushes it in, and
    is riding on the rounded side, which will do nothing.
    I've also seen actuators with a groove worn that will produce these same results, pull it up and out and check, replace if needed.

    as for the basket movement you mention .... did you follow a diagram for washer/spacer placement behind and in front of the basket nut ?
    and do not mix from one machine to the other, we have seen slightly different thickness spacers on different engines that caused problems

    basket fingers badly grooved, preventing plate/fiber movement ?

    do you have have enough plates/fiber washers in the stack, are placed correctly, start with a fiber against back of basket and end with fiber against pressure plate ?
    and did you soak them overnight in your oil of choice before installing ?

    sorry if some of these are most basic, but we need to eliminate every possibility.
     
  7. Larry's Shee

    Larry's Shee Active Member Technician

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    Did you soak the fibers before installing?
    Did you follow the manual for assembly ?
     
  8. Larry's Shee

    Larry's Shee Active Member Technician

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  9. Nick Migues

    Nick Migues Member

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    I have that service manual and followed it. The fibers were soaked before installing them. One has a stock ball and ironically one has one from ace hardware because the other was long gone because I didn’t realize it when I first rebuilt the engine. I will have to check the alignment of the clutch rod itself. I will have to check the basket as well on the stock one but they seemed to move ok, as for the newer one it has a brand new basket and clutches. The one that I rebuilt that has basket movement isn’t even the actual basket, the actual shaft itself (I believe it would be the input shaft?) actually moves in and out quite a bit even with the basket not installed so not sure what’s going on there but I know it’s not right just don’t know what would cause that. I know all the plates are installed correctly as I did lots of looking around to make sure I got it all right. The only thing I’m not 100% on is, does it go fiber plate fiber spring, or does the spring go before the 2nd fiber? It makes a huge difference in how it acts when messing with it but just not sure which way is right. I did also start them both momentarily in neutral without the balls in them. I will triple check everything you guys said probably this weekend and see if I can find my issues. Thank you guys for useful info, and no offense taken on the basic questions because this is my first time doing anything like this and I’m learning and it’s not hard to miss things you don’t know are there, especially on the one with all new parts as I didn’t even disassemble that one and it sat disassembled for awhile so it wouldn’t have been hard to miss something.
     
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  10. Awk08

    Awk08 Administrator Staff Member Technician

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    7 fibers, 6 steel plates, starting and ending with a fiber at both ends of the stack
    rotate the outer tab on the steel 2 positions for each one

    That fiber, steel, wavy spring you mention, throw that damn thing away, it's only to cushion the clutch grab for young/new riders.
    some aftermarket clutches include an extra full size fiber to replace that 2nd "thinner" fiber and spring
    you can use the stock thinner fiber without the spring
    but if the spring is used it has to match up with the fiber that has a slightly bigger inner diameter, as the spring sits inside that extra space.
    I'm not sure the placement of that fiber/spring in the stack matters, except it can't be in the first or last position as the spring would ride on the basket or pressure plate. it comes stock and calls for in the second fiber position out.
    what really matters is if the spring is used it is matched to the correct fiber for it.
     
  11. Nick Migues

    Nick Migues Member

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    Okay so if I’m not using stock clutches (the rebuilt blaster has new wiseco clutches) then I don’t need the spring. I have the spring in the stock blaster but dunno if I have it matched with the correct fiber but I might just get rid of it in that one as well rather than trying to figure out which one is slightly larger. So I know 4 ft pounds isn’t a lot, my main question is should the springs be compressed all the way then 4 foot pounds, or does the 4 ft pounds come before that? It seemed to work better on the stock blaster with the springs not compressed as much so I’m thinking it probably compresses the springs as you grab the clutch handle? Gonna be playing with them both tomorrow so I’m hoping I can figure them out as I am an anxious to ride them both, the stock blaster is mine and I’ve owned it since January and it’s been nothing but a head ache so I’m ready to put a beat down on it. And the upgraded one is my wife’s and I’m ready to see how much faster it is as we started this rebuild as novices back in January (wish I would’ve just replaced the broken balancer gear instead of saying screw it we got it out might as well rebuild it lol) and haven’t even gotten to do the break in process yet lol
     
  12. Nick Migues

    Nick Migues Member

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    Okay so I checked all that little stuff and everything seems right, the only thing I don’t get is adjusting. Right now working on the stock blaster. I run the adjustment rod all the way out, hold pressure on the clutch rod as far forwards towards the front of the bike as it’ll go, and turn the adjustment in until the arrows line up, but when I get it lined up I can’t push the rod forwards to actually engage the clutch it just gets stuck. Now with the cable attached I can pull it but it doesn’t seem to have a lot of throw, tho I can see it move the pressure plate out. I have the bolts ran all the way in until they stopped turning but essentially put no torque on them. Just to put into perspective I went ahead and recorded a quick video as it explains much better than me lol.. thanks.
    https://youtube.com/shorts/vgel3RIa86o?feature=share

    Quick edit: adjusted the cable itself and it actually made it move quite a bit more and made the clutch handle feel more like it should. Went ahead and kicked it into first gear and grabbed the clutch and it made it quite easy to roll while in gear and can see it moving quite a bit so I think I finally got it! Maybe I just needed a new day haha. Gonna throw it together and see what she does!
     
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  13. Nick Migues

    Nick Migues Member

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    Double post but new topic, on the upgraded blaster I am concerned about the input shaft movement. The whole shaft moves even when the clutch basket is not on the shaft so it’s not anything to do with the spacers/washers for the basket. Will it affect anything? What would cause this? I think I can get the clutches set right but seems pointless if this movement will cause issues down the line. Here’s a video of said movement, like I said the shaft moves even without the basket on it.
    https://youtube.com/shorts/_I7F-KV6UHQ?feature=share
     
  14. Nick Migues

    Nick Migues Member

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    Bump on this. I saw someone replied to my YouTube video saying I had it installed wrong but had what installed wrong? Is it typical for the input shaft to move that little bit without the basket installed? Is the basket and washers supposed to pull that input shaft tight when installed? If I’m being honest there was several blasters laying around so it’s possible I don’t have the exact washer that came out of it back in it, so would that cause that movement? Any help is appreciated.
     
  15. Nick Migues

    Nick Migues Member

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    Trying to revive this again as I’m still stumped on this. I did realize I’m missing the conical washer, so I installed that, and still no difference.I also tried a different spacer. I can tell it shouldn’t move because it doesn’t move with stock parts on my other blaster. I also installed a stock clutch basket from another blaster to see if it was something with the wiseco basket and it still moves. I don’t see anything on the diagram I am missing so I don’t understand why it moves so much. Is it going to cause issues? Can I get away with it? I don’t get it. The whole input shaft moves in and out. Thanks.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/WoNHY7NR218?feature=share
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
  16. Nick Migues

    Nick Migues Member

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    Well I’m happy to share that I finally got it figured out. I had to flip the conical spring washer around and it finally fixed. On an off topic, I finally got this blaster running… and holy cow it’s fun. For insight, we decided to rebuild the engine when we found the balancer gear broken(we’re noobies to blasters, so we heard a pinging noise and pulled the engine before ever checking it and had already ordered parts so we decided to rebuild it) so we went with a Wiseco 68 mm piston, new crank and rod, new Wiseco clutches and basket.. and it’s crazy fast. I fly around my block wide open on my blaster which is only about .040 over bored, and the bigger one flys around the block even faster.. at 1/2 throttle. Still breaking it in so haven’t even ridden it super hard yet.
     

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