Vito's vs. Hot rods stroker crank
- Thread starter meangreen
- Start date
I have run the Vito crank for years on the dyno, track and not had a issue with their crank coming apart. Maybe the problem could be detonation from over advance timing?
I talked to Paul at Vito´s .. this is what he said:
Hello Lasse
We have never had anybody send us a bad PC2003 crankshaft for inspection after selling over 1000 of them. We had one call in 3 years about loose stuffers but they removed them and that was the end of that.
The number one cause of crankshaft failure in general is from poor air filtration allowing dirt into the engine or not splitting the cases to clean out the junk after a piston burn down. The next one is not using 32:1 oil ratio.
Regards
Paul
So ill guess we have NOTHING to worry about.. there must have been a special reason for the stuffers on the example meantioned earlier in this post.. like Kennedy said : maybe detonation
Hello Lasse
We have never had anybody send us a bad PC2003 crankshaft for inspection after selling over 1000 of them. We had one call in 3 years about loose stuffers but they removed them and that was the end of that.
The number one cause of crankshaft failure in general is from poor air filtration allowing dirt into the engine or not splitting the cases to clean out the junk after a piston burn down. The next one is not using 32:1 oil ratio.
Regards
Paul
So ill guess we have NOTHING to worry about.. there must have been a special reason for the stuffers on the example meantioned earlier in this post.. like Kennedy said : maybe detonation
aren't you the owner of project blaster? i would actually like to see some proof of what your claiming.. very easy to bash the competion on the internet.. but alot of us here aren't kids, or newbies, or greenhorns... hell some of us might even be experianced 2 stroke guys... so... put your chips on the table..
Same here,been running my +3 stroker for well over a year now and have had no issues.I have not heard of any problems with them until now.Personally I will buy a +3 before I go through the hassle of a +4.IMO
There is no bashing whatsoever going on here. I continue to sell the Vito crank. The question that was asked at the start of the thread was about the reviews of the two cranks in question. You obviously didn' t read or understand the topic before responding like you did.
We will not recomend one of the Vito cranks to someone that will be racing on a National level. Someone that will require the best performance from an engine day after day. We have seen too many failures with these cranks.
The failures aren't coming from guys that are your "newbies or greenhorns" as you put it, but from "experienced 2 stroke guys". You might be able to run these without incedent, but if you were to examine just how that crank is designed to be able to be used without the trenching of the cases, then you would understand that the bottom of the rod is the weak point.
Others would argue that the bottom of the rod isn't important, I disagree, and this is where the failures occur. This applies with all things as well. Take tires, the 4 ply is tougher than 2ply.
My post was my opinion and not bashing. I have installed these in some bikes and for these customers they are satisfied, but they aren't reliable enough for me for the punishment that motocross demands on an engine.
i run a 3mm for 2 years now...run the sh*t outta it..never a problem...lets see some pics of the bad ones...
I still dont understand you write it like you commonly have failures? Like you have a failing Vito crank once a week.. I cannot comment anything about national motocross abuse, because i dont compete.... But from what i can tell everybody is very happy with them , and it seems there are 0 failures on this forum with many users...
at least im happy with mine.. and i hope it last..
so your saying that the rod end is to thin and there breaking the rod? at the "national level" i can understand they take some abuse but the motors cant be making that much power, lets say 30-40hp roughly.... the same style rod not the same rod but style are used in there 4mm banshee stroker cranks no case trenching required those motors will make over a 100hp spinning 11,000+rpms and those rods arent breaking. i think what this boils down to is whos installing and building these motors.
so what your saying since the bottom of the rod is thinned that the conecting rod is failing? i can honestly say that i have never once heard of that issue and i've spent alot of time talking 2 strokes with ALOT of people over the years.. but what i wonder about is if the cranks are failing why do you continue to sell them?
i just see a bit of a conflict of interest here i would really like to see some of these failed cranks.. also how long after installation are these failures happening? i can se teh thinner big end of the rod being an issue in the event of say a dropped skirt. the thinner maerial may have more tendancy to crack..
i'd have to agree... some people can f*ck up a steel ball with a rubber hammer. hahaha
i have been told my a couple of builders with awesome creds that the vito's stuffer cranks are weaker than the 4mil that you have to do case work to use. while we are at it i have seen the two side by side and currently have a vito's mil stroker. just looking at it i can see that it is a weaker design and have heard from more than one person to stay away from the product for a high stress application. however, i also believe that for most of us that their product has adequate strength for our needs. when or even if i go to replace the vito's stroker i will base my decision on my needs and my experience with the performance of the vito's product. i do have to say that had i not bought the engine with the vito's crank i would most likely not have used their stuffer crank-- all things being equal less metal = less strength and anytime you add a foreign material to a crank that is bolted,pressed, or glued their IS more of a chance for problems as the wearing or failure of the material could cause take the assembly out of balance that could result in a catastrophic failure.
they're not taking steel away and replacing it with the stuffer, the stuffer is there to decrease the crankcase volume, theoretically you could minus the stuffer and the crank would still work, hot rods could do the same thing if they added the stuffer but vitos prolly has a patent or sumthin on it....now to the bad cranks where are the pics at????? or at least whats going bad on them??? are the ends falling off? the rods breaking? its just a little unclear on whats happening
man this got kinda off track...
no one is bashing the vitos cranks,you guys need to examine that crank alittle more.I know what im talking about because ive probibly seen 12 or 13 of these cranks after they have been used.If your crank is holding up thats great im glad to hear it,but i would suggest to someone who is spending im sure hard earned money that they would want the best for what they pay for...
no one is bashing the vitos cranks,you guys need to examine that crank alittle more.I know what im talking about because ive probibly seen 12 or 13 of these cranks after they have been used.If your crank is holding up thats great im glad to hear it,but i would suggest to someone who is spending im sure hard earned money that they would want the best for what they pay for...
look at the crank the way it is made,i dont even have a vitos crank here to even show you,but the crank that i mentioned before i think hobby horse has now.Send him a PM and he may be able to show you what we are talking about.
The problems we are talking about do not come from installing them,it is the way they are made.
if you have not seen both cranks to compare them then why are you even in this conversation? it is on the big end side of the rod--they are different and i generally do not trust anything hanging onto a reciprocating mass that has not been welded on (by someone who is competent) as the forces acting on the piece to sling it off are incredible. I doubt vito's patent would be any good anymore as they are usually only good for 15 years unless a modification has been made and then they reapply for an extention. i do have to say that i may be wrong but i seem to be the only one here that is neutral on the subject and i do not have a dog in this game as both pittboss and kennedy both sell vito's stuff. kennedy recommended a vito's crank for my application and i will trust him. however, people that i have spoken with that build drag blasters do not recommend the vito's kit if you have the money for the 4mil or are planning on lots of high rpm in a blaster (drag racing,aggressive duning, or desert racing). i have done my research and have formulated my opinion and if you read my entire post you will see that i stated that the vito's kit is fine for most of what the members of this forum do. BTW, the cranks that went bad are probably in the trash or have been recycled. i imagine that the last thing that a builder with a good reputation is going to do is take the time to take a picture to prove that they are telling the truth--they are going to show it to their customer and toss the junk.
hmmm interesting thread ,i guess ill throw my 2 cents in as well ...
yes the vitos style 3mills have the connecting rod modifed to clear the case and yes
they have delrin inserts and while these may seem like weak points ,i have not personally seen where there has ever been a failure due related to quality issues.unfortunately i cant say the same thing for the hotrods ive seen their rods snap like twigs and ruin a 240 sonic 1,500 engine i n their defense though id admit for a banshee ,quadracer and 250r they make a good crank . i know theres some pretty strong drag blasters using the vitos 3mills ive built that get punished at a drag strip over and over ,one thing to watch for is they dont hold up with a big shot of nitrous.
dollar for dollar its a great crank. in my opinion i think pitboss had a pretty fair review about the 2 of them in his own personal experiances.who am i to say hes full of crap on what hes witnessed in the past .. but i know in my builds i would rather go with the 3mm over the hotrod and id note it doesnt appear the extra mm of stroke translates into faster track times from what ive seen .another thing is how its installed (they are sometimes tapped in offset of center)and what premix oil is being used ,high compression and detonation kills crank bearings so does a lack of oil.
yes the vitos style 3mills have the connecting rod modifed to clear the case and yes
they have delrin inserts and while these may seem like weak points ,i have not personally seen where there has ever been a failure due related to quality issues.unfortunately i cant say the same thing for the hotrods ive seen their rods snap like twigs and ruin a 240 sonic 1,500 engine i n their defense though id admit for a banshee ,quadracer and 250r they make a good crank . i know theres some pretty strong drag blasters using the vitos 3mills ive built that get punished at a drag strip over and over ,one thing to watch for is they dont hold up with a big shot of nitrous.
dollar for dollar its a great crank. in my opinion i think pitboss had a pretty fair review about the 2 of them in his own personal experiances.who am i to say hes full of crap on what hes witnessed in the past .. but i know in my builds i would rather go with the 3mm over the hotrod and id note it doesnt appear the extra mm of stroke translates into faster track times from what ive seen .another thing is how its installed (they are sometimes tapped in offset of center)and what premix oil is being used ,high compression and detonation kills crank bearings so does a lack of oil.
