Is their anything I need to do if I switch from super m to 927? Like drain the tank? Or can I just start mixing the 927 and runnin it with the super m that is remaining in the tank?
Thanks
Thanks
Maxima super m to maxima castor 927
- Thread starter blaster003
- Start date
Is there a reason for the switch from one of the best oils ever made for these air cooled bikes (super m) ?
how do you plan to get the oil laying in the bottom end out before the castor mixes with it ?
stick with the Super M,
the only 2 benefits of bean oil.....film strength and smell
are outweighed by the negatives.... excessive carbon deposits, gums up at lower temps
if you're switching for the smell.....
https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/936/31313/Manhattan-Oil-Scented-Gas-Additive
educate yourself on oils:
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pdfs/V3_RISE AND FALL OF CASTOR.pdf
http://www.foxvalleykart.com/oil1.html
http://www.klemmvintage.com/oils.htm............
Castor Based Oils
Mr. Robert Verret wrote : I mentioned a third category of base oils earlier, vegetable or Castor (not Castrol, that’s a manufacturer) bean oil. This oil is derived from pressing oil out of castor beans and distilling it. ‘Bean Oil’ as it is often referred to, has some very unique characteristics; some very good, others not so good. The good is that it is an excellent lubricant. It seeks out hot spots in the engine and clings to those hot surfaces much better than petroleum type oils. The bad is that it does not mix with gasoline easily and it burns ‘dirty’ (excessive carbon/varnish deposits). In the early 70s, before power valves were used, castor bean oil was very popular in racing 2-strokes. Now that power valves are common and we have improved petroleum and synthetic oils, castor bean oil is seldom used anymore. Several companies still market it in the form of a degummed castor oil for racing applications only. It should be avoided for recreational use unless you enjoy tearing your engine down for a top end cleanup fairly often. Several manufacturers formulate their oil with castor bean oil as an additive (antiwear agent) rather than base oil. They blend it with their petroleum and synthetic base oils. When castor bean oil burns, it has an unmistakable ‘sweet’ smell. (end of excerpt)
Despite all this very positive experience with a Castor based oil, we openly acknowledge that Castor oils “ARE NOT” necessarily the best choice for all vintage two-stroke applications. Robert Verret’s excerpt below explains that......
Mr. Robert Verret wrote: The API-TC standard was developed for Air-cooled, high rpm, high output 2-stroke engines operating under severe load conditions. Although this standard is no longer reviewed and updated since 1993 b the API, it still is in effect today. This standard most accurately addresses the condition Rotax and 2-stroke racing motorcycles and snowmobiles operate under. Almost all these oils are formulated with synthetic or synthetic blend base oils and all use a low ash type detergent. If you walk into a store that handles a variety of 2-stroke oils, it is relatively easy to find TCW3 certified oil. The manufacturer proudly displays that certification on each container. API-TC certified oils, on the other hand, are very difficult to find. There are two main reasons for this. First, many small API-TC oil manufacturers can’t or won’t spend the money (about $75,000) for the testing and certification process. Second, most engines requiring API-TC oils are for racing applications (Motocrossers and Crosscountry motorcycles) and don’t offer warranties with their engines anyway. The owner/operators of these machines know what oils work and don’t work. They do not need the API-TC certification on the bottle to help them decide what oil to use. (end of excerpt)
The truth is that API-TC oils are also top level lubricants that have excellent film strength, and are much easier to “live with” than Castor oils. Besides being somewhat cleaner than bean oils, the API-TC oils will also mix “homogonously” with gasoline, and have little or no tendency to separate.
API-TC oils are the better choice. Among these oils, our favorites are Yamalube R, Kawasaki K2, and Maxima Super M.
qoutes from other forums:
Before getting all gung-ho on Castor Oil, study the relationship between Castor Oil and Stearic Acid. Then study the relationship between Stearic Acid and all the brass jets and parts in your carburetor. Let's just say, if you're going to use Castor, mix fresh every day and definitely do not let it sit in your carb for long periods of time.
Vegetable oil castor bean:
Vegetable oils, due to their good lubricity and biodegradability are attractive alternatives to petroleum-derived lubricants, but oxidative stability and low temperature performance limit their widespread use.
Castor oil has better low temperature viscosity properties and high temperature lubrication than most vegetable oils, making it useful as a lubricant in jet, diesel, and race car engines
However, castor oil tends to form gums in a short time, and its use is therefore restricted to engines that are regularly rebuilt, such as race engines.
Synthetic oil:
Synthetic oil is a lubricant consisting of chemical compounds that are artificially made (synthesized).
Synthetic lubricants can be manufactured using chemically modified petroleum components rather than whole crude oil, but can also be synthesized from other raw materials.
Synthetic oil is used as a substitute for lubricant refined from petroleum when operating in extremes of temperature, because, in general, it provides superior mechanical and chemical properties than those found in traditional mineral oils.
Fact is 927 WILL separate / turn sludge like in your gas can or bike if left over night at low temps
We do a lot of cold weather riding, real cold. Even with temps near zero f. And, at these temps I've seen 927 form a sludge in the bowl of the carb and the bike will not run. A real pain to deal with too when you are freezing cold already. The regular synthetics seem to work real well
how do you plan to get the oil laying in the bottom end out before the castor mixes with it ?
stick with the Super M,
the only 2 benefits of bean oil.....film strength and smell
are outweighed by the negatives.... excessive carbon deposits, gums up at lower temps
if you're switching for the smell.....
https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/936/31313/Manhattan-Oil-Scented-Gas-Additive
educate yourself on oils:
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pdfs/V3_RISE AND FALL OF CASTOR.pdf
http://www.foxvalleykart.com/oil1.html
http://www.klemmvintage.com/oils.htm............
Castor Based Oils
Mr. Robert Verret wrote : I mentioned a third category of base oils earlier, vegetable or Castor (not Castrol, that’s a manufacturer) bean oil. This oil is derived from pressing oil out of castor beans and distilling it. ‘Bean Oil’ as it is often referred to, has some very unique characteristics; some very good, others not so good. The good is that it is an excellent lubricant. It seeks out hot spots in the engine and clings to those hot surfaces much better than petroleum type oils. The bad is that it does not mix with gasoline easily and it burns ‘dirty’ (excessive carbon/varnish deposits). In the early 70s, before power valves were used, castor bean oil was very popular in racing 2-strokes. Now that power valves are common and we have improved petroleum and synthetic oils, castor bean oil is seldom used anymore. Several companies still market it in the form of a degummed castor oil for racing applications only. It should be avoided for recreational use unless you enjoy tearing your engine down for a top end cleanup fairly often. Several manufacturers formulate their oil with castor bean oil as an additive (antiwear agent) rather than base oil. They blend it with their petroleum and synthetic base oils. When castor bean oil burns, it has an unmistakable ‘sweet’ smell. (end of excerpt)
Despite all this very positive experience with a Castor based oil, we openly acknowledge that Castor oils “ARE NOT” necessarily the best choice for all vintage two-stroke applications. Robert Verret’s excerpt below explains that......
Mr. Robert Verret wrote: The API-TC standard was developed for Air-cooled, high rpm, high output 2-stroke engines operating under severe load conditions. Although this standard is no longer reviewed and updated since 1993 b the API, it still is in effect today. This standard most accurately addresses the condition Rotax and 2-stroke racing motorcycles and snowmobiles operate under. Almost all these oils are formulated with synthetic or synthetic blend base oils and all use a low ash type detergent. If you walk into a store that handles a variety of 2-stroke oils, it is relatively easy to find TCW3 certified oil. The manufacturer proudly displays that certification on each container. API-TC certified oils, on the other hand, are very difficult to find. There are two main reasons for this. First, many small API-TC oil manufacturers can’t or won’t spend the money (about $75,000) for the testing and certification process. Second, most engines requiring API-TC oils are for racing applications (Motocrossers and Crosscountry motorcycles) and don’t offer warranties with their engines anyway. The owner/operators of these machines know what oils work and don’t work. They do not need the API-TC certification on the bottle to help them decide what oil to use. (end of excerpt)
The truth is that API-TC oils are also top level lubricants that have excellent film strength, and are much easier to “live with” than Castor oils. Besides being somewhat cleaner than bean oils, the API-TC oils will also mix “homogonously” with gasoline, and have little or no tendency to separate.
API-TC oils are the better choice. Among these oils, our favorites are Yamalube R, Kawasaki K2, and Maxima Super M.
qoutes from other forums:
Before getting all gung-ho on Castor Oil, study the relationship between Castor Oil and Stearic Acid. Then study the relationship between Stearic Acid and all the brass jets and parts in your carburetor. Let's just say, if you're going to use Castor, mix fresh every day and definitely do not let it sit in your carb for long periods of time.
Vegetable oil castor bean:
Vegetable oils, due to their good lubricity and biodegradability are attractive alternatives to petroleum-derived lubricants, but oxidative stability and low temperature performance limit their widespread use.
Castor oil has better low temperature viscosity properties and high temperature lubrication than most vegetable oils, making it useful as a lubricant in jet, diesel, and race car engines
However, castor oil tends to form gums in a short time, and its use is therefore restricted to engines that are regularly rebuilt, such as race engines.
Synthetic oil:
Synthetic oil is a lubricant consisting of chemical compounds that are artificially made (synthesized).
Synthetic lubricants can be manufactured using chemically modified petroleum components rather than whole crude oil, but can also be synthesized from other raw materials.
Synthetic oil is used as a substitute for lubricant refined from petroleum when operating in extremes of temperature, because, in general, it provides superior mechanical and chemical properties than those found in traditional mineral oils.
Fact is 927 WILL separate / turn sludge like in your gas can or bike if left over night at low temps
We do a lot of cold weather riding, real cold. Even with temps near zero f. And, at these temps I've seen 927 form a sludge in the bowl of the carb and the bike will not run. A real pain to deal with too when you are freezing cold already. The regular synthetics seem to work real well
yes, flush everything.
it does not mix with any other oils, hence why i asked how you'd be getting the leftover M out of the bottom end ?
found this, but would not do it myself: (run engine for 1-2 minutes with straight fuel ?
)..............http://hodakaforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=441
Castor 927 is a unique blend of highly refined Castor oil, a specially prepared synthetic and an additive system that reduces carbon and gum formation and provides excellent rust and corrosion protection. Castor 927 also contains an exclusive additive that keeps power valves cleaner and working properly. For all of us that wish to keep our air and water cleaner, Castor 927 is biodegradable. Castor 927 keeps on lubricating; where other lubricants turn to carbon or vaporize, and provides extra protection on cylinder walls, bearing journals and other critical areas at temperatures much higher than other lubricants.
Pre-Mix ONLY!!!! NOT FOR OIL INJECTED ENGINES OR AUTOLUBE ENGINES (eg Vespas)
WARNING!!!!!!!! This a not a synthetic oil and will NOT mix with any other oils! If changing over from any synthetic oil, then the following must be adhered to: drain all existing fuel from tank, pour a tiny amount of pure petrol into the tank and run for a very short amount of time-eg ,1-2 minutes on TICKOVER (idle), only to clear out the fuel lines, carb, and whatever remnants of 2 stroke oil are left in the engine, then stop the engine, re-fuel with the correct amount of Castor 927 and petrol, and remember to mix thoroughly as Castor based oils tend to be thicker than other 2-Stroke oils. Shake the container or scooter vigorously!
again....IMO, it's just not worth it.
Maxima Castor 927 is a blend of modified fatty acid Ester, Castor oil and additives to help carbon build up.
Although the correct way to switch over to another oil is to completely drain and clean the system, I do believe that Maxima927 will accept being mixed with a fully synthetic.
In all of the engines that have been using Synthetic oil prior to me owning them, I have made the transition to 927 by just draining the fuel system and re filling the tank with the new mix.
I have done this process of switching oils over many years with no problems?
I in no way condone that it is the correct way to switch oils, but I have never experienced any bad side effects.
Although the correct way to switch over to another oil is to completely drain and clean the system, I do believe that Maxima927 will accept being mixed with a fully synthetic.
In all of the engines that have been using Synthetic oil prior to me owning them, I have made the transition to 927 by just draining the fuel system and re filling the tank with the new mix.
I have done this process of switching oils over many years with no problems?
I in no way condone that it is the correct way to switch oils, but I have never experienced any bad side effects.
I've gone from "Maxima Super M Injector" oil , to removing my oil injection system and trying 927 to see if there were any advantages, then to standard (pre-mix only) "Maxima Super M", then to "Redline", then to Golden Spectra", then ....ALL the way back to putting my oil injection system back on and running "Maxima Super M Injector". This is where I'll be staying.
I switch oil twice a year. Klotz Benol in summer, Yamalube in winter. Drain tank and bowls, fill up and ride.
Bean oil gets thick in cold Temps and will not flow threw the carb passages.
If it gets cold enough it actually turns to a semi-solid like lard or Crisco. Only draw back of it, IMO.
